Comparison 2004 vs 2012 Mazda3

[Gloomfrost]

So I was helping a buddy of mine study for his G2 last weekend, and of course as a G1 driver, I wouldn't let him touch my car (2004 Mazda3, 161,000kms, stock! (WOOT!)) so he had to get a rental; a white 2012 Mazda3 Sedan 2.0L (GX I think, not sure about the equipment layout of the new gen models - no alloys, but all power options). Since he couldn't drive it alone, I had it to myself for most of the weekend when I wasn't with him. Did a total of 387.5km in it.

I'm going to try and keep this oriented towards the whole 2012 line, not just the GX/GS models, so I won't talk about stuff like how it had no alloys.

What I liked:

Steering seemed more dynamic and adjusted better to braking and helped correct torque-steer. Did anyone else notice that on the newer models it feels heavier when accelerating?

Grip. Feels like it has more of it. The tires don't complain too loudly like mine do in the '04 when they do lose traction.

The tail lamps. Even the non-LED ones look much better than the old red ones. Note: I didn't test out if they make that cool pattern on the ground at night like the gen1 models did :P

Transmission - much more refined, felt more responsive, quicker, smoother shifts - ESPECIALLY with manumatic.

Holds speed better at 100-120km/hr. It coasts much better at highway speeds in general. Not sure if this is because of reduced drag, just the fact it's a new engine, or (I suspect) the extra gear, but it's good to not have any lurches when stepping off the gas quickly.

The horn sounds better, more...horn-like..

Better sound-proofing all around: tire noise, wind, engine, etc.

Even after 9000km as a rental car, it surprisingly still had that delicious new-car smell that gave my GF a headache. :P

I overall don't like the styling as much as the previous gen (better than the 2010 though at the front - still reminds me of a Peugeot), but I like the side mirrors design (better than the old square shapes).

The sloped door grip things. I remember this from when I was younger and my dad rented a Pontiac Grand AM, they're fun to hold onto upon quick acceleration.

Finally an AUX-jack, but still no USB (not sure if model-specific).

The rear-view mirror is more slim, no more black thick plastic box hanging in the windscreen.

Handbrake seems more powerful.




What I DIDN'T like:

The chassis is more flexible. Not sure if anyone noticed this, but try going on any prolonged ramp going about 80kmh, then wobble the steering wheel smoothly. This made my GF sick as the chassis flexes and it feels boat-like. I think the '04 had a stiffer body.

The engine sounds like a Honda, especially when Revved. I was turned-off by this BIG time. I missed the louder grumble from my '04.

Steering! I know I said it feels more dynamic, and that is true, but it's also a lot lighter. The heavier steering from before is MUCH better IMO. I can't feel the car as well with what feels like new artificial steering.

Throttle response on the auto. The fake manual is much better, but the auto sucks now. I found it to be jumping gears. Maybe it's because I wasn't used to it (and didn't get used to it), but in the old setup, you push a little harder and it gears down, here, you have to basically push it almost all the way down and then it starts to gear down once, then just a TAD more and it gears down AGAIN - should be more linear - I don't want to floor it to pass on the highway.

The blue layout. I liked and missed my large red speed and tach dash, as well as the fuel and engine temp gauges. Why get rid of those?

Why the extra cove on the dash? Felt like something was missing in between, also seems like if I put my GPS or even phone mount there, it'll block off that blue display entirely, so it's just wasted space.

This is a big one; the seating is uncomfortable. It's lacking the lumbar adjustments, and when my friend put his hand around the top of the seat when reversing, I could actually feel the seat mis-form at the bottom.. ?! I'm 6.2"

The rear view mirror blocks my front view when driving. In fact, the driving position is worse overall. I had to constantly put my head down to see if pedestrians were crossing the street before making a right turn.

The sound system. It's not the Bose one, and I think they cheaped out on the basic one. The stock speaker system in my 2004 sounds better.

The TUNE knob. Why is the Tune knob in the middle? Should be volume like before!

Lack of 'pocket' room in the front. Where do I put my change? Cup holders seemed deeper too.

The stupid long flip key. This car should come with push-start as standard if they're going to do this. Otherwise, when I was doing some closed road stuff, I like to sit up close, but because I'm tall, my knee basically wants to go in that slot where the giant rectangular block of a key is sticking out. I was always scared of bending it or knocking it out entirely. Not to mention that it feels more unsafe. Pumping my chair up limits my headroom. So..yeah.., I couldn't find a good seating solution.

No mute button, in fact, no steering controls on this model at all.




Thanks for reading,
G

[zmz3]

comprehensive review :thumbsup

I do agree on most of the things you mentioned except the chassis on 2010+ model being stiffer IMO and the tails of 1st gen looks better IMO.

[terapr0]

you wouldnt let your "friend" practice driving on your 8yr old econo-box? You made him go out and actually rent a car, just to practice for his test?
wow, who needs enemies when you've got friends like you :p

[113GT]

omg, not a good review at all.

first of all, the chassis is stiffer on the 2010+ models.
The 2.0 liter in the 2012 is the SAME as the 2004. It sounds like any other 2.0 4 cylinder engine..

Why are you going 80 kmh on a ramp and wobbling the steering wheel?? Great way to lose control and hurt people....

I drove a 2004 2.3 liter mazda 3 for 4 years and the sound system was GARBAGE compared to the 6 speaker system in the 2011,2012. The 2004 had no highs or lows..it just lacked any quality. The newer ones sound really nice for stock speakers.

Why do you need a temp. gauge? are you tracking the car? There is (like alot of cars have now) a blue light that will stay on until the car reaches normal operating temps. Turns red if its overheating.

Why the need for it???

The flip key is an amazing addition. Now while you have the keys in your pocket, there is nothing stabbing your leg. The length of the flip key might be longer than your traditional key, but unless your 9 feet tall, it shouldnt be an issue.

Your review is detailed, but alot of it is non sense.

sorry.

[zzz3]

Why do you need a temp. gauge? are you tracking the car? There is (like alot of cars have now) a blue light that will stay on until the car reaches normal operating temps. Turns red if its overheating.

Why the need for it???



+1

no need for fuel gauge either; E and F light is more than adequate, since our cars can get over 800km with 1/4 tank left.

[113GT]

+1

no need for fuel gauge either; E and F light is more than adequate, since our cars can get over 800km with 1/4 tank left.

uhh sensing some sarcasm over here. If you are serious then all i have to saw is wow.....

That my friend is a terrible idea... you need a gas gauge so you can gauge how much fuel is left so you dont get stuck somewhere. why do I have to even explain something like this??

[The Wolf]

uhh sensing some sarcasm over here. If you are serious then all i have to saw is wow.....

That my friend is a terrible idea... you need a gas gauge so you can gauge how much fuel is left so you dont get stuck somewhere. why do I have to even explain something like this??

no, he's right. give your head a shake.

[113GT]

no, he's right. give your head a shake.

he's right about what? l

[The Wolf]

To him, his old sedan feels stiffer. I don't know for sure, but I'd assume his '04 is lighter than the '12... Might make it feel stiffer?

The cars have the same engine, but a different exhaust setup. Sounds different. Also, a subaru 2.0 will sound a hell of a lot different than a mazda 2.0. That, and his vehicle is 8 years old, so it is likely to sound quite different than a brand new vehicle.

A temperature gauge is something I'd never want to go without. You know you can run hot without overheating, and run cool as well? It's nice to be able to see these things happening rather than just be informed after the fact with a little light.

OP says the flip key bothers his knee. Do you think he's lying?

It's a review. an opinion.

[113GT]

To him, his old sedan feels stiffer. I don't know for sure, but I'd assume his '04 is lighter than the '12... Might make it feel stiffer?

The cars have the same engine, but a different exhaust setup. Sounds different. Also, a subaru 2.0 will sound a hell of a lot different than a mazda 2.0. That, and his vehicle is 8 years old, so it is likely to sound quite different than a brand new vehicle.

A temperature gauge is something I'd never want to go without. You know you can run hot without overheating, and run cool as well? It's nice to be able to see these things happening rather than just be informed after the fact with a little light.

OP says the flip key bothers his knee. Do you think he's lying?

It's a review. an opinion.

the light that comes on when your engine is cold stays on until it reaches normal operating temps. When the red light comes on it doesnt mean necessarily that your car is smoking and damage is being done. The red light must come on once the engine is past its normal mark for operating temps. So the little red light will tell you once your running hot. Why would Mazda design a car where the engine can run hot and no one would know which can increase engine wear.

a 4 cylinder engine has a distinct sound, just a v8 does etc...obviously the exhaust notes will be different but all sound similar.

about the flip key, no i dont think hes lying, hes just picking out things that are non sense to complain about. they key is too long. seriously??

The review is an opinion and i dont agree with it. thats why i said it sucks.

[juliusrock]

113GT, I agree with most of what you've said.

I've had a 2004 mazda sedan and now drive a 2012 sky hatchback and have to say that the overall interior is a lot cleaner and stylish than the 2004. I do, however, miss the amount of compartment space from the 04 but the way in which the blue screen is laid out gives me a new place to put things like food, drinks, my cell phone - and they do not block the screen.

I'd have to disagree with Gloomfrost in saying the red looks better than the blue. Over time the red became drab and similar to lots of other cars so it's refreshing to see blue, in all of its clarity-goodness, and also that it matches the skyactiv badge (perhaps, though, I will grow tired of the blue lights but I think it's more sleek).

In terms of weight, my 04 sedan did feel lighter but now that I'm driving a hatchback the extra weight is understandable but after 3000km I've totally forgotten about the 04.

I do miss the metallic swirl from the first generation 3. You know, that *swooooosh* when turning on the ignition. I'd totally identify a 3 turning on when walking through a parking lot. Now when I turn my car on it sounds like every other car out there.

Lastly, sitting at 5'8 and average build, I feel that the steering wheel blocks the odometer and gas gauge. I mean, I've adjusted my chair to the exact height I prefer when driving but then the steering wheel covers that portion! I lower the steering wheel to show the bars but then my knees make contact. I mean, I guess I don't always have to stare at the gas and odometer but it's a bit more convenient having everything shown at once.

Oh, second lastly, I enjoy the removal of the temp gauge as the new icon that shows and disappears equals a much cleaner and minimal dashboard.

Overall I'm impressed with the 2012 from having a 2004. The flip key is righteous compared to the standard key+remote (I'm constantly flipping the key in and out). I hope to eventually write a comprehensive comparison between an 04 and a 12 in case anyone is considering trading up. I strongly suggest doing so.

[Gloomfrost]

you wouldnt let your "friend" practice driving on your 8yr old econo-box? You made him go out and actually rent a car, just to practice for his test?
wow, who needs enemies when you've got friends like you :p

Lol I had no idea if he even knew HOW to drive - like I said, he was prepping for his first real road test. And honestly, he actually did manage to scratch the rental, so in retrospect, I completely stand by my decision. Also, "8 years old" also doesn't mean anything, the car is in great condition, with no reliability issues whatsoever. It's also my baby so I'm emotionally attached to it like that.



The 2.0 liter in the 2012 is the SAME as the 2004. It sounds like any other 2.0 4 cylinder engine..

I drove a 2004 2.3 liter mazda 3 for 4 years and the sound system was GARBAGE compared to the 6 speaker system in the 2011,2012. The 2004 had no highs or lows..it just lacked any quality. The newer ones sound really nice for stock speakers.

Why do you need a temp. gauge? are you tracking the car? There is (like alot of cars have now) a blue light that will stay on until the car reaches normal operating temps. Turns red if its overheating.

The flip key is an amazing addition. Now while you have the keys in your pocket, there is nothing stabbing your leg. The length of the flip key might be longer than your traditional key, but unless your 9 feet tall, it shouldnt be an issue.

Okay first, it sounds DIFFERENT. I don't know what you've been driving for '4 years', but the engine acoustics (or at least what you hear inside) are different. Especially at low revs. You could actually hear the old models, and the car vibrated more (I liked that).

Second, sound system; again, this is the sedan version, not sure if you're talking about the hatch. I agree on BASE settings it might be better, but there is no MID control. Only Treble and Bass, the old one had a MID tune, and with a little bit of tweaking it sounds better - I found best settings for me is +4 bass, +5 treble, +4 MID, with R2, L1 fade. Bass sounds too muffled and overpowering on the new one. Also, speakers don't normalize properly when you boost bass. The treble gets quieter while the bass gets louder (treble freq. should stay the same!)

The temp gauge;
1. I like to know when I can actually turn the heat on in the winter and feel something (right around the first bar when the gauge is rising).
2. I like to know AS SOON as the gauge moves above normal. I don't want to see that red symbol and have to stop. It's all about preemptive knowledge. - Yes, I would mod and track my car if it was mine from the start, so I need this.
While we're on this point, the gauges (tach and speed) are uglier. I liked the chunky dotted pegs on the old ones.

The flip key in itself is GOOD, but it's bad with how much longer it sticks out. I am not 9 feet tall, but I noticed it. I like to sit real close, almost as close as track driving. The large key makes it difficult. Also, the center panel is thicker, so there is less room for my knee in that gap between the steering wheel and the console. Measure for yourself.

[Gloomfrost]

To him, his old sedan feels stiffer. I don't know for sure, but I'd assume his '04 is lighter than the '12... Might make it feel stiffer?

The cars have the same engine, but a different exhaust setup. Sounds different. Also, a subaru 2.0 will sound a hell of a lot different than a mazda 2.0. That, and his vehicle is 8 years old, so it is likely to sound quite different than a brand new vehicle.

A temperature gauge is something I'd never want to go without. You know you can run hot without overheating, and run cool as well? It's nice to be able to see these things happening rather than just be informed after the fact with a little light.

OP says the flip key bothers his knee. Do you think he's lying?

It's a review. an opinion.

Thanks!

[Gloomfrost]

The flip key is righteous compared to the standard key+remote (I'm constantly flipping the key in and out).

Lol I was doing this as well, NON-STOP. It's addicting. I miss it now O.o
Also your point about matching the skyactiv blue; yeah, I could see that. However, it was white, and not skyactiv. Have you ever sat inside one of the 2012 Dodge Chargers at night? They have really nice sky-blue interior mood lighting.


----
I wish I could edit my posts, but I wanted to summarize my *opinion* *cough 113GT*:

Overall the 2012 Mazda3 is a better car. However, some 'raw-ness' (I'll call it) from the older version will be missed.
Having said that, I'm actually planning on buying a new car in the next year (if I survive the impending apocalypse that is), and I was really wanting to like the new 3. I liked it more as I drove it more, but after getting back in my '04 afterwards, I didn't really miss the new one that much, and I think that's a big problem. I haven't tried the Skyactiv, so I will definitely give that a chance as well (especially with added options; might address my issues).

I don't want a car that acts and sounds like every other car out there. The difference between a 2004 Mazda3 and a 2004 Corolla or Civic is/was much greater (IMO) than the 2012 generation. Think about that.

[silverstarmazda]

i have an 04 hatch and i can totally understand what your talking about. the new mazda 3 feels more refined and mature... but the old one has the charm that makes the car both crap but fun to drive. but in the end thats why we all modify our cars. not the rental but if it was his own im sure he'll start to modify the car. the skyactive is fun to drive too...im jealous..

[Impressive]

omg, not a good review at all.

first of all, the chassis is stiffer on the 2010+ models.
The 2.0 liter in the 2012 is the SAME as the 2004. It sounds like any other 2.0 4 cylinder engine..

Why are you going 80 kmh on a ramp and wobbling the steering wheel?? Great way to lose control and hurt people....

I drove a 2004 2.3 liter mazda 3 for 4 years and the sound system was GARBAGE compared to the 6 speaker system in the 2011,2012. The 2004 had no highs or lows..it just lacked any quality. The newer ones sound really nice for stock speakers.

Why do you need a temp. gauge? are you tracking the car? There is (like alot of cars have now) a blue light that will stay on until the car reaches normal operating temps. Turns red if its overheating.

Why the need for it???

The flip key is an amazing addition. Now while you have the keys in your pocket, there is nothing stabbing your leg. The length of the flip key might be longer than your traditional key, but unless your 9 feet tall, it shouldnt be an issue.

Your review is detailed, but alot of it is non sense.

sorry.

Everything in this post is true except the temperature gauge...as others have said, give your head a shake on that one...but otherwise, poor review.

[113GT]

Lol I had no idea if he even knew HOW to drive - like I said, he was prepping for his first real road test. And honestly, he actually did manage to scratch the rental, so in retrospect, I completely stand by my decision. Also, "8 years old" also doesn't mean anything, the car is in great condition, with no reliability issues whatsoever. It's also my baby so I'm emotionally attached to it like that.



Okay first, it sounds DIFFERENT. I don't know what you've been driving for '4 years', but the engine acoustics (or at least what you hear inside) are different. Especially at low revs. You could actually hear the old models, and the car vibrated more (I liked that).

Second, sound system; again, this is the sedan version, not sure if you're talking about the hatch. I agree on BASE settings it might be better, but there is no MID control. Only Treble and Bass, the old one had a MID tune, and with a little bit of tweaking it sounds better - I found best settings for me is +4 bass, +5 treble, +4 MID, with R2, L1 fade. Bass sounds too muffled and overpowering on the new one. Also, speakers don't normalize properly when you boost bass. The treble gets quieter while the bass gets louder (treble freq. should stay the same!)

The temp gauge;
1. I like to know when I can actually turn the heat on in the winter and feel something (right around the first bar when the gauge is rising).
2. I like to know AS SOON as the gauge moves above normal. I don't want to see that red symbol and have to stop. It's all about preemptive knowledge. - Yes, I would mod and track my car if it was mine from the start, so I need this.
While we're on this point, the gauges (tach and speed) are uglier. I liked the chunky dotted pegs on the old ones.

The flip key in itself is GOOD, but it's bad with how much longer it sticks out. I am not 9 feet tall, but I noticed it. I like to sit real close, almost as close as track driving. The large key makes it difficult. Also, the center panel is thicker, so there is less room for my knee in that gap between the steering wheel and the console. Measure for yourself.

My parents old 3 Hatch (2004) did not sound louder. I dont know wtf youre talking about with this....maybe your exhaust has hole in it lol

I compared both the bose system in the new 3's to the non bose system and they sounded identical. No one could tell the difference. The bose system sucks in this car. The stock speakers are nothing like I had in my previous car but they are a world of difference compared to the 2004 3 hatch I drove.

I have the bass at -1 and treble at +5 and it sounds great! The bass is rich and not overpowering. Obviously aftermarket speakers (even the cheaper ones) will show an improvement over the oem however, the gen 1 speakers were absolute garbage. All mid and highs, no lows at allll.

For the temp gauge, as soon as your precious little needle would move (and by the time you would see the needle and notice that it has moved ever so slightly) the red icon would have already appeared and is much more apparent that a slight move of a needle.

I am about 5'11 and do not experience this issue, I also do not drive so close to the wheel.

I just find your review pretty pointless to be honest and I am allowed to express my opinion on your opinion.

[113GT]

Everything in this post is true except the temperature gauge...as others have said, give your head a shake on that one...but otherwise, poor review.

lol meh, I dont miss the temp gauge as I have explained, it is really not needed for day to day driving since we have the 2 lights.

While I admit that if they put the temp gauge back in, I wouldnt complain and would embrace it, but I also can do without it. No need for a head shaking on this one. As long as the car tells me its at normal operating temps and starting to increase in temps so the red light comes on, Im happy.

By the way, there are alot of cars nowadays that do not have this gauge.

[Gloomfrost]

Again, different strokes for different folks. I pay attention to the feel of the car the most.

As for gauges.. and I know you'll disagree with me on this one.. but this is my kind of car :P
http://image.superchevy.com/f/29622205/sucp_1008_09+1969_chevy_camaro_z28+auto_meter_gaug es.jpg

[TheMAN]

omg, not a good review at all.

first of all, the chassis is stiffer on the 2010+ models.
The 2.0 liter in the 2012 is the SAME as the 2004. It sounds like any other 2.0 4 cylinder engine..

Why are you going 80 kmh on a ramp and wobbling the steering wheel?? Great way to lose control and hurt people....

I drove a 2004 2.3 liter mazda 3 for 4 years and the sound system was GARBAGE compared to the 6 speaker system in the 2011,2012. The 2004 had no highs or lows..it just lacked any quality. The newer ones sound really nice for stock speakers.

Why do you need a temp. gauge? are you tracking the car? There is (like alot of cars have now) a blue light that will stay on until the car reaches normal operating temps. Turns red if its overheating.

Why the need for it???

The flip key is an amazing addition. Now while you have the keys in your pocket, there is nothing stabbing your leg. The length of the flip key might be longer than your traditional key, but unless your 9 feet tall, it shouldnt be an issue.

Your review is detailed, but alot of it is non sense.

sorry.

+1 wobbling the steering wheel while on an on ramp doesn't test the chassis, it tests the suspension.... if it feels more sloppy, it's because the suspension is softer... NOTHING to do with the chassis
only real way to test the chassis is to drive the car at the limit, preferably in a slalom

any stock temp gauge is useless to begin with... there's only 3 positions in the gauge... "cold", "normal", "hot"... by the time the gauge starts moving to "hot", damage already starts occurring and the engine has already overheated for some time!

and the engine sounds different because the exhaust is very different! it's still the same damn engine!
case in point... I drove a rental 3rd gen MPV (some may know this as the Mazda8) in Japan... it had the same L3-VE 2.3l MZR engine as the 3, 5, and 6... but it sounded completely different... more buzzy... it's because of the exhaust!

[TheMAN]

Lol I had no idea if he even knew HOW to drive - like I said, he was prepping for his first real road test. And honestly, he actually did manage to scratch the rental, so in retrospect, I completely stand by my decision. Also, "8 years old" also doesn't mean anything, the car is in great condition, with no reliability issues whatsoever. It's also my baby so I'm emotionally attached to it like that.



Okay first, it sounds DIFFERENT. I don't know what you've been driving for '4 years', but the engine acoustics (or at least what you hear inside) are different. Especially at low revs. You could actually hear the old models, and the car vibrated more (I liked that).

Second, sound system; again, this is the sedan version, not sure if you're talking about the hatch. I agree on BASE settings it might be better, but there is no MID control. Only Treble and Bass, the old one had a MID tune, and with a little bit of tweaking it sounds better - I found best settings for me is +4 bass, +5 treble, +4 MID, with R2, L1 fade. Bass sounds too muffled and overpowering on the new one. Also, speakers don't normalize properly when you boost bass. The treble gets quieter while the bass gets louder (treble freq. should stay the same!)

The temp gauge;
1. I like to know when I can actually turn the heat on in the winter and feel something (right around the first bar when the gauge is rising).
2. I like to know AS SOON as the gauge moves above normal. I don't want to see that red symbol and have to stop. It's all about preemptive knowledge. - Yes, I would mod and track my car if it was mine from the start, so I need this.
While we're on this point, the gauges (tach and speed) are uglier. I liked the chunky dotted pegs on the old ones.

The flip key in itself is GOOD, but it's bad with how much longer it sticks out. I am not 9 feet tall, but I noticed it. I like to sit real close, almost as close as track driving. The large key makes it difficult. Also, the center panel is thicker, so there is less room for my knee in that gap between the steering wheel and the console. Measure for yourself.

there is no "mid" setting in the 1st gen's bose system

"track driving" does not mean sitting real close and hugging the steering wheel.... you don't know what you're talking about and what you're doing is dangerous... if you like to end up hospitalised in a crash, go ahead and keep on doing this, because when the airbag blows, it'll slam right into your chest and cause internal bleeding

TRUE proper seat position as taught by all racers is to move the seat back as far as you can but leave your knees with a slight bend to it... it should never be so far back that you have to stretch your legs to floor any pedal... and if you have trouble grabbing the steering wheel, recline the seat upwards or move the seat up slightly... sitting in a gangster position is asking for trouble

[113GT]

@theMAN.

Finally someone with comon sense. :thumbsup:thumbsup

Some people are just so hard headed and do not see the bigger pictuire.

[knowitalljerk]

I wish my 2011 GX had a temp. gague, not just an idiot light.

If you're running the AC when it's 30 out in stop-and-go traffic on the 401, the engine gets really hot, it's nice to know ahead of time the temperature is creeping up. A year 2000 CHEVROLET Impala had this stock. Usually also when the gague starts to move, that's when the engine is warm enough to turn on the heat and get ... heat, not just cold air blown onto your hands.

That being said, it is by all means not a deal-breaker.

[Kessly Snipes]

The temp gauge was one thing I noticed missing when I got in the car. It isn't needed, but would be nice to have. Yes we have the light and without it, the panel looks cleaner, but I do miss it.

[O1Kanoby]

Finally an AUX-jack, but still no USB (not sure if model-specific).

G

since 2007 Aux Jack has been standard in all trim levels of mazda 3's

[Impressive]

@theMAN.

Finally someone with comon sense. :thumbsup:thumbsup

Some people are just so hard headed and do not see the bigger pictuire.

We're not being hard headed, we are just telling you that we prefer to know our engine temperature on a gauge as opposed to a series of lights. I know my temp gauge did not work 99% of the time in my old Jetta, but the one time it did it actually saved me from overheating my engine and destroying the thing...so regardless of how useful it is (I admit that it's not a necessity) - I prefer my cars to come with temperature gauges.

I guess I'm SOL if I end up buying a Gen2 then :(

[113GT]

We're not being hard headed, we are just telling you that we prefer to know our engine temperature on a gauge as opposed to a series of lights. I know my temp gauge did not work 99% of the time in my old Jetta, but the one time it did it actually saved me from overheating my engine and destroying the thing...so regardless of how useful it is (I admit that it's not a necessity) - I prefer my cars to come with temperature gauges.

I guess I'm SOL if I end up buying a Gen2 then :(

The same way your temp gauge saved your engine, the light will too!

Once the gauge starts to move towards "warm" is when the light will come on telling you the engine is getting hot.

I know what youre saying that you would rather a gauge than a light though, just if someone is gonna list it as a con and make it a deal breaker and complain about it....it is just useless information.

More useful things would be the refinement of the car, how it drives, quality, reilability etc....not that a stupid useless gauge is missing.

[Impressive]

^Fair enough. I guess I'll have to learn to love it, like I did the Gen2 hatches...i'm still working on liking Gen2 sedans to be honest.

My biggest con (besides the lack of mute) on the second generation 3s has to be that poorly designed handle they put on the drivers side door. Literally, the first gen has a handle (don't know why it's even necessary) placed properly out of the way behind the drivers arm, however all that stupid handle ever does it prevent me from comfortably reaching the power window buttons :bang

[zzz3]

More useful things would be the refinement of the car, how it drives, quality, reilability etc....not that a stupid useless gauge is missing.

+1
people on this site nit pick way too much. i wish apple would design a car; don't have to worry about gauges, levers etc. and it will super simple and easy to use.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/3595/onepedalcarmacyodawgj.jpg

[Gloomfrost]

+1 wobbling the steering wheel while on an on ramp doesn't test the chassis, it tests the suspension.... if it feels more sloppy, it's because the suspension is softer... NOTHING to do with the chassis
only real way to test the chassis is to drive the car at the limit, preferably in a slalom

any stock temp gauge is useless to begin with... there's only 3 positions in the gauge... "cold", "normal", "hot"... by the time the gauge starts moving to "hot", damage already starts occurring and the engine has already overheated for some time!

and the engine sounds different because the exhaust is very different! it's still the same damn engine!
case in point... I drove a rental 3rd gen MPV (some may know this as the Mazda8) in Japan... it had the same L3-VE 2.3l MZR engine as the 3, 5, and 6... but it sounded completely different... more buzzy... it's because of the exhaust!

Yeah +1 about the suspension. I had a feeling I might be referring to suspension after I wrote the original post, not sure why I said chassis x_X

What do you mean by stock temp gauge only having 3 positions? Are you referring to the digital one? When the stock temp gauge moves up a little above normal, it's still okay no? Should just be inspected or engine stopped soon so it doesn't get too hot.

As for the exhaust, yes it probably is because of it. Either way, I was referring to the sound overall, not specifically what is under the hood.

[Gloomfrost]

there is no "mid" setting in the 1st gen's bose system

"track driving" does not mean sitting real close and hugging the steering wheel.... you don't know what you're talking about and what you're doing is dangerous... if you like to end up hospitalised in a crash, go ahead and keep on doing this, because when the airbag blows, it'll slam right into your chest and cause internal bleeding

TRUE proper seat position as taught by all racers is to move the seat back as far as you can but leave your knees with a slight bend to it... it should never be so far back that you have to stretch your legs to floor any pedal... and if you have trouble grabbing the steering wheel, recline the seat upwards or move the seat up slightly... sitting in a gangster position is asking for trouble

I never said Bose. I said stock. There is a MID option on the stock system for '04, but none for the '12. Also, I checked today and I have it set to +6 Bass, +4 Mid, +5 Treble, R2, L1 fade. Sounds the best like that! (And IMO better than the stock '12).

Also, what's with the seating position stuff? I never specified I was that close to the wheel lol. I follow the proper seating position, and I still find that key being longer and more annoying.

[Gloomfrost]

The same way your temp gauge saved your engine, the light will too!

Once the gauge starts to move towards "warm" is when the light will come on telling you the engine is getting hot.

So when the red engine hot light comes up, what does it mean? Does it mean I should pull over immediately, or does it mean I can keep driving for 50km more, and then it'll be fine on the way back?

For example, if I see my temp gauge on my '04 shift above normal, I would drive with lower RPM, and if it cools down back to normal, I would check coolant/radiator etc. when I stop at my destination. However, if it continues rising and gets into the 'red' area, I would pull over. How can I translate this with the red light?

[Impressive]

I never said Bose. I said stock. There is a MID option on the stock system for '04, but none for the '12. Also, I checked today and I have it set to +6 Bass, +4 Mid, +5 Treble, R2, L1 fade. Sounds the best like that! (And IMO better than the stock '12).

Also, what's with the seating position stuff? I never specified I was that close to the wheel lol. I follow the proper seating position, and I still find that key being longer and more annoying.

If you listen to your music on average at any volume higher than 17 with that setup, consider your speakers blown/on their way.

[zoomahh]

Temp gauge missing was what I noticed as well...but as 113 said...I can do without it... esPECIALLY when I saw the 5 position heated seats in my GS sky :D as long as my ass is warm..... F it ! ! I don't mind driving till I get heat :)

[TheMAN]

We're not being hard headed, we are just telling you that we prefer to know our engine temperature on a gauge as opposed to a series of lights. I know my temp gauge did not work 99% of the time in my old Jetta, but the one time it did it actually saved me from overheating my engine and destroying the thing...so regardless of how useful it is (I admit that it's not a necessity) - I prefer my cars to come with temperature gauges.

I guess I'm SOL if I end up buying a Gen2 then :(
the usefulness and uselessness of a gauge is the exact same as the light
like I said already.... the stock temp gauge is a 3 position gauge.. it does NOT move in reflection to the ACTUAL temperature of the engine constantly... it only moves once the temperature has changed for a while... and that's always too late

I DO like a gauge myself, but since its functions are limited, the feelings are purely psychological

[Kessly Snipes]

I never said Bose. I said stock. There is a MID option on the stock system for '04, but none for the '12. Also, I checked today and I have it set to +6 Bass, +4 Mid, +5 Treble, R2, L1 fade. Sounds the best like that! (And IMO better than the stock '12).

Also, what's with the seating position stuff? I never specified I was that close to the wheel lol. I follow the proper seating position, and I still find that key being longer and more annoying.

WOW, that is a good way to end your speakers life, FAST!

I have Treble +3 and Bass +2, sometimes bass will go up to +3, but rarely.

[The Wolf]

I don't have the Bose on my 07, and it has no MID option. I don't find I need it really. Wouldn't +6 Bass, +4 Mid, +5 Treble be the same as +2 Bass, 0 Mid, +1 Treble?

[113GT]

I don't have the Bose on my 07, and it has no MID option. I don't find I need it really. Wouldn't +6 Bass, +4 Mid, +5 Treble be the same as +2 Bass, 0 Mid, +1 Treble?

Not really since, if at the same volume, the bass is much lower and so is the mid and treble.

My parents had the 2004 gs hatch and the speakers were god awful.

There is was no life to them! complete shit lol

My settings are, i think, +2 towards the front, -1 on bass and +5 on treble. Sounds sweet on this setting.

I also dont put the volume past 14 since its quite loud at that level.

If my speakers end up being blown out of this universe, time to upgrade :D

[Impressive]

the usefulness and uselessness of a gauge is the exact same as the light
like I said already.... the stock temp gauge is a 3 position gauge.. it does NOT move in reflection to the ACTUAL temperature of the engine constantly... it only moves once the temperature has changed for a while... and that's always too late

I DO like a gauge myself, but since its functions are limited, the feelings are purely psychological

Good to know. My Jetta had a fan in the front by the radiator which wasn't working and it was during the dog days of summer. I was actually doing my G test and was about 5km from the DriveTest place when it did it initially. I told the lady instructor I had to pull over because my engine was going to blow. She says "ok, well, before you do that, can you at least drive me back to the centre?"

:bang are you kidding me? my gauge was literally in the red and she thought I could drive her?!? Thankfully she postponed my test and I went back two weeks later and passed no problems :)

[Gloomfrost]

WOW, that is a good way to end your speakers life, FAST!

I have Treble +3 and Bass +2, sometimes bass will go up to +3, but rarely.

... The car is 8 years old, and the speakers are fine lol. They don't blow THAT easily.

Also, I don't tend to turn it up more than 15 (remember though, 15 is louder on the gen1, I think it's equivalent to 30 on the gen2.. but that's just my guess).
Sometimes on the highways with windows down, I might go to 18, but rarely, and usually for a short period of time.
Haven't had any problems.

[Impressive]

... The car is 8 years old, and the speakers are fine lol. They don't blow THAT easily.

Also, I don't tend to turn it up more than 15 (remember though, 15 is louder on the gen1, I think it's equivalent to 30 on the gen2.. but that's just my guess).
Sometimes on the highways with windows down, I might go to 18, but rarely, and usually for a short period of time.
Haven't had any problems.

My dad has an 04 and I have an 06 and I can tell you there's a day and night difference between them (with mine being significantly better). You must have got some really crappy 2010 as well because I'd say my girlfriend's 2010 GS speakers are even better than mine.

[Gloomfrost]

My dad has an 04 and I have an 06 and I can tell you there's a day and night difference between them (with mine being significantly better). You must have got some really crappy 2010 as well because I'd say my girlfriend's 2010 GS speakers are even better than mine.

It was a 2012. Might have been a GX, not sure if that makes any difference though, probably same speakers. Also, we're talking Sedans here right? I know the hatch has a better audio environment.

[Impressive]

It was a 2012. Might have been a GX, not sure if that makes any difference though, probably same speakers. Also, we're talking Sedans here right? I know the hatch has a better audio environment.

Well in that case it's a double win because mine is a sedan and his is a hatch.

[TheMAN]

the non-bose systems in the 04-08s are really crappy, speaker-wise... the 08.5-09 was better because the headunit got upgraded... so it had better sound processing
either way, the 04-08s had really flat sounds... just no punch to it... the "crappy" stock system in the protege was better! that's sad!

[Kessly Snipes]

It was a 2012. Might have been a GX, not sure if that makes any difference though, probably same speakers. Also, we're talking Sedans here right? I know the hatch has a better audio environment.

I drove a 2011 GX and it was garbage, can't hot a candle to my 2012 GS

[ronphan]

not sure about this but I think the 2nd gens have a bigger gas tank then the 1st gen

[Impressive]

not sure about this but I think the 2nd gens have a bigger gas tank then the 1st gen

It was posted in the fuel economy thread that 2nd Gen GTs have larger tanks than other second gen models.

I'm 99.9% sure all first gen models come with a 55 litre tank.

I can't believe nobody else shares my gripe about the door handle...maybe I just need to readjust the seat position (never bothered to do it since it's my gf's car)

[Gloomfrost]

I can't believe nobody else shares my gripe about the door handle...maybe I just need to readjust the seat position (never bothered to do it since it's my gf's car)

Actually I sort of nodded my head when I first read it, but I just didn't think it's that big of a deal - primarily because when I'm about to exit the car, I'm moving around anyway, so having to bend forward and reach around isn't too big of a deal for me.
I agree though, those slanted handles do block the exit handle. And yeah, your seating position might be off.

[Gloomfrost]

I drove a 2011 GX and it was garbage, can't hot a candle to my 2012 GS

Yeah so maybe that's why I had those random complaints. It was probably a GX, in fact, the more I think about it, the more I'm sure that it was a GX.

Just out of curiosity, does the GS have a different exhaust? I noticed today on my '04 that it is DEFINITELY louder and lower sounding than the 2012 GX, and it probably is because of the exhaust.

[Kessly Snipes]

Yeah so maybe that's why I had those random complaints. It was probably a GX, in fact, the more I think about it, the more I'm sure that it was a GX.

Just out of curiosity, does the GS have a different exhaust? I noticed today on my '04 that it is DEFINITELY louder and lower sounding than the 2012 GX, and it probably is because of the exhaust.

The GX sounds tinny, muffled and distorted when you start to turn it up, so it makes sense.

As for exhaust, I am not sure. I have a SkyActiv, so I am sure it is different, and doesn't sound horrible when you get on it and up in the higher RPM range, but it is still a 2.0 4 banger, so it is what it is.

[Impressive]

Naturally I guess the 2.3 (being a bored out version of the 2.0) will sound louder, so your complaint about the exhaust being quieter might be answered by that. Also, it's a new car, I'm sure it'll start to have a little rumble once the rental mileage starts to pile up :chuckle

[DaveIrwin24]

i owned both a 2004 gx and 2010 gx and regards to the sound of the exhaust on both it was pretty similar. Both cars are totally different from one another

[LezOLee]

AFAIK the 2012 GX models only have the 4 speaker setup. I'd have to say that the addition of the tweeters in the higher models makes a huge difference in the sound. The highs have more clarity and they don't sound drowned out by the bass. Maybe they don't sound as good for the OP for that reason?

[Gloomfrost]

AFAIK the 2012 GX models only have the 4 speaker setup. I'd have to say that the addition of the tweeters in the higher models makes a huge difference in the sound. The highs have more clarity and they don't sound drowned out by the bass. Maybe they don't sound as good for the OP for that reason?

You're right in that it only had the 4 speakers. That's why I didn't like it, I mentioned before the bass was overpowering. Hopefully the tweeters make a difference on the other models.

[gta_driver]

The same way your temp gauge saved your engine, the light will too!

Once the gauge starts to move towards "warm" is when the light will come on telling you the engine is getting hot.

I know what youre saying that you would rather a gauge than a light though, just if someone is gonna list it as a con and make it a deal breaker and complain about it....it is just useless information.


Why are you being so pedantic? First you criticize the original review because it's one person's opinion. Then you proceed to defend the temperature light to the bone, which is your personal opinion.

Bottom line, a LOT of people prefer the old-school gauge. Since all temperature gauges read their data from the ECU for the past 15 years, it's never as accurate as old-school gauges, but a properly developed modern gauge will provide you with a TON more information than just Cold, Normal, and Hot. I never see the gauge move into a hotter position from its "middle" setting even on hotter days (in my Mazda3), so I suspect Mazda's gauge is pretty dumb, unfortunately.

But on my Audis, the gauge will move up and down as little as 5 degrees. It will indicate to me that a thermostat is stuck open, thus needing replacement. The dummy light would never indicate that. The Audi gauge will also indicate that my aux fan is not working in the summer when the gauge moves up too high. In both cases, it doesn't move beyond "normal".

As far as Mazda3 is concerned, the dummy light may not be any better than a dummy gauge, but I will take a properly developed gauge any day.

P.S. Even on my Mazda3, I know when I can start pushing the car into higher RPMs but not too high. When the gauge starts to move up, I know the car is getting warmer, but I still wouldn't push it hard. What does the dummy light go off, when it's fully hot, or just warm?

[beyond]

Why are you being so pedantic? First you criticize the original review because it's one person's opinion. Then you proceed to defend the temperature light to the bone, which is your personal opinion.

Bottom line, a LOT of people prefer the old-school gauge. Since all temperature gauges read their data from the ECU for the past 15 years, it's never as accurate as old-school gauges, but a properly developed modern gauge will provide you with a TON more information than just Cold, Normal, and Hot. I never see the gauge move into a hotter position from its "middle" setting even on hotter days (in my Mazda3), so I suspect Mazda's gauge is pretty dumb, unfortunately.

But on my Audis, the gauge will move up and down as little as 5 degrees. It will indicate to me that a thermostat is stuck open, thus needing replacement. The dummy light would never indicate that. The Audi gauge will also indicate that my aux fan is not working in the summer when the gauge moves up too high. In both cases, it doesn't move beyond "normal".

As far as Mazda3 is concerned, the dummy light may not be any better than a dummy gauge, but I will take a properly developed gauge any day.

P.S. Even on my Mazda3, I know when I can start pushing the car into higher RPMs but not too high. When the gauge starts to move up, I know the car is getting warmer, but I still wouldn't push it hard. What does the dummy light go off, when it's fully hot, or just warm?

I've owned 2 Audi's (2009, 2012) but I've never seen the temperature gauges move before o.O"

Anyway, back on topic....I had the 2004 Mazda 3 2.3L and currently have the 2012 Mazda 3 GS-SKY.

IMO, it's hard to compare b/c of the different engine sizes. My 2.3L definitely had more "kick" than the SkyActiv. As for the exhaust notes, they sound pretty similar to me. And the whole argument about the engine temperature gauge, I'd agree that it would be nice to have....just a matter of personal preference I guess? I don't mind it so much. It turns blue when the engine is cold and when it warms up, the light disappears...not a big deal.

The newer 2012 models have a lot of the older issues solved. I mean, my 2004 M3 kept blowing its headlights. I think it was b/c the DRL's were the same as the headlights or something? Glad that Mazda solved this issue in the later models. The transmission on my current car is 100x better than the old one. I'd also say that the suspension is better and my chassis feels stiffer (personal preference). The 1 thing I don't like is the torque steer. Even on this "lower powered" GS-SKY model the torque steer is still there!! And the GS-SKY comes w/ crappy tires lol

Other than that, there's not much of a comparison....

Just my 2 cents :)

[Impressive]

I've owned 2 Audi's (2009, 2012) but I've never seen the temperature gauges move before o.O"

Anyway, back on topic....I had the 2004 Mazda 3 2.3L and currently have the 2012 Mazda 3 GS-SKY.

IMO, it's hard to compare b/c of the different engine sizes. My 2.3L definitely had more "kick" than the SkyActiv. As for the exhaust notes, they sound pretty similar to me. And the whole argument about the engine temperature gauge, I'd agree that it would be nice to have....just a matter of personal preference I guess? I don't mind it so much. It turns blue when the engine is cold and when it warms up, the light disappears...not a big deal.

The newer 2012 models have a lot of the older issues solved. I mean, my 2004 M3 kept blowing its headlights. I think it was b/c the DRL's were the same as the headlights or something? Glad that Mazda solved this issue in the later models. The transmission on my current car is 100x better than the old one. I'd also say that the suspension is better and my chassis feels stiffer (personal preference). The 1 thing I don't like is the torque steer. Even on this "lower powered" GS-SKY model the torque steer is still there!! And the GS-SKY comes w/ crappy tires lol

Other than that, there's not much of a comparison....

Just my 2 cents :)

Anything VW-related almost ensures that your temperature gauge (if you have one) won't move.

Like I said in my original post, the one on my VW was broken to the point that it wouldn't even be halfway 35 minutes into a drive, however, when my fan broke and the engine was overheating, the gauge did kick in and show me that I need to stop or else it wouldn't be pretty. My 2006 GT takes roughly 2-5 minutes to warm up to the proper setting, depending on how long it has been since the last drive and how cold or warm the current temperature is.

[beyond]

Anything VW-related almost ensures that your temperature gauge (if you have one) won't move.

Like I said in my original post, the one on my VW was broken to the point that it wouldn't even be halfway 35 minutes into a drive, however, when my fan broke and the engine was overheating, the gauge did kick in and show me that I need to stop or else it wouldn't be pretty. My 2006 GT takes roughly 2-5 minutes to warm up to the proper setting, depending on how long it has been since the last drive and how cold or warm the current temperature is.

LOL
VW FAIL!!!
Luckily, I've never ran into such problems w/ my Audi's. I don't know how old your cars were, but perhaps they fixed the issue(s) in the newer models?

[Impressive]

I had an MK4 which is the model that most people seem to have problems with. Electrical and random issues will continue to be the death of VW.
The TDI engines they've put out in the North American market are sweet however...too bad they don't come fitted in a Mazda3.

MK4 = 1999-2004 for Jettas but mine happened to be a 2000.

[mazdaagain]

Probably a repeat here but he goes ... I owned a 2005 GT sedan manual and am now in a 2010 Hatch manual. My main beefs are :

1) The digital fuel gauge. I HATE this. I have no idea where in the "block" I am, especially when I am low on fuel. Ya ya, I know I'll get the "you should never be so low that you are worried" answer
2) Lack of small storage areas especially the small on next to the gear shift. I used to use this to put my phone in and it was perfect for that !!
3) 2 compartment console is now 1 compartment. Much less convenient because I would put certain things I needed to access in the smaller up and bulkier items in the lower
4) lack of temp gauge. My 2010 does not even have a dummy gauge so I have no idea what engine temps are
5) auto locking doors. I HATE this function. It locks all the doors once you start driving

[113GT]

Why are you being so pedantic? First you criticize the original review because it's one person's opinion. Then you proceed to defend the temperature light to the bone, which is your personal opinion.

Bottom line, a LOT of people prefer the old-school gauge. Since all temperature gauges read their data from the ECU for the past 15 years, it's never as accurate as old-school gauges, but a properly developed modern gauge will provide you with a TON more information than just Cold, Normal, and Hot. I never see the gauge move into a hotter position from its "middle" setting even on hotter days (in my Mazda3), so I suspect Mazda's gauge is pretty dumb, unfortunately.

But on my Audis, the gauge will move up and down as little as 5 degrees. It will indicate to me that a thermostat is stuck open, thus needing replacement. The dummy light would never indicate that. The Audi gauge will also indicate that my aux fan is not working in the summer when the gauge moves up too high. In both cases, it doesn't move beyond "normal".

As far as Mazda3 is concerned, the dummy light may not be any better than a dummy gauge, but I will take a properly developed gauge any day.

P.S. Even on my Mazda3, I know when I can start pushing the car into higher RPMs but not too high. When the gauge starts to move up, I know the car is getting warmer, but I still wouldn't push it hard. What does the dummy light go off, when it's fully hot, or just warm?

if you even read and were able to comprehend what you were even reading, I said that the light goes off when it has reached normal operating temps. fully hot means your engine is overheated and maxed out engine temps were reached.

plus, i highlighted one of your statements in bold.....i hope your not serious??

if your gauge didnt move on a hot day, it means your engine is not starting to overheat....in any car i drove, the needle never moved on a hot day with ac running.

and the old school gauges dont provide you with a TON more info...lol they just let you know when it has started to warm up....which doesnt matter because if your gonna hammer it, it is best to do so when it has reached its normal operating temps.

and btw, you were being hypocritical since you are dogging me for dogging the op's review lolol