PETITION - CLOSING OF KINGSTON PEN (MY JOB ON THE LINE)

[BIRDFLU]

Hey guys, I am new to this site but some of you know me since ive been active enough.. what I am asking from you is to sign and share this petition.. we all know the GOVERNMENT has been cutting jobs and we were told we would not be affected (CSC EMPLOYEES) and then we find out 3 days ago that Kignston Pen (Canada's oldest pen) maximum security jail is closing along with its treatment center inside (it got leaked on FB and CBC..)... this means approximately 600 staff members are losing their jobs if they cannot be relocated or transferred to another jail. They have royally ****ed us over.. they close the jail saying its old and cost too much to run (120million per year) but want to build X amounts of beds in other jails which will cost me and have us lose our jobs... this isnt something you can cut back on... these criminals need to stay behind bars.

I am asking you guys to take 1 min and click on the link and sign the petition... you dont want Paul Bernado's, Russel Williams and Mohammed Shafia to be anywhere else but Kingston Pen where they deserve to be... help me out guys.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/save-kingston-pen-and-regional-treatment-centre/

[BIRDFLU]

and the petition is not for closing is but against closing it lol

[MPS]

Wow ur friends with P Bernardo lol
That **** still alive and enjoying his accommodation for one

[BIRDFLU]

Wow ur friends with P Bernardo lol
That **** still alive and enjoying his accommodation for one

I don't think friends is the right term lol, but in all seriousness about 700 employees will lose their jobs over this so the more names the better...

[MPS]

You have a better case with making the inmates riot
Toss a pack of smokes there way
And I'm sure they will do the rest

[MPS]

And next time you see PB give him a kick for me
One of the girls was my buddy's ex

[BIRDFLU]

You have a better case with making the inmates riot
Toss a pack of smokes there way
And I'm sure they will do the rest

It's only a matter of time... last time they tried to do this (close KP) in 1971 they had one of the biggest riots in North American jails.. google KP riot 1972 lol... its gona happen just watch... ill try and snap a pic of me waving around some burning building lol and PB is out of contact with anyone and everyone.. he doesnt act up or do anything so he stays in his cell quiet and does his thing... yes he is a piece of shit however there are way more dangerous cons than him at KP.

[Almeida]

Signed :)

[MPS]

It's only a matter of time... last time they tried to do this (close KP) in 1971 they had one of the biggest riots in North American jails.. google KP riot 1972 lol... its gona happen just watch... ill try and snap a pic of me waving around some burning building lol and PB is out of contact with anyone and everyone.. he doesnt act up or do anything so he stays in his cell quiet and does his thing... yes he is a piece of shit however there are way more dangerous cons than him at KP.

I know PB is just a freaky pusssy pervert
Faking looney bin

[BIRDFLU]

Thanks guys

[S.F.W.]

signed

[n00bMeiSter]

signed

[RTEnthusiast]

I'm sitting 5 minutes from the Pen right now, on the Queen's campus in the law library.

*Signed*

[FoXy]

Doubt this will work, you're probably not going to get canned but moved to joyceville or millhaven or something. They will just turn KP into a museum or something. I know few ppl who work at KP and everyones talkin about it.

[BIRDFLU]

Doubt this will work, you're probably not going to get canned but moved to joyceville or millhaven or something. They will just turn KP into a museum or something. I know few ppl who work at KP and everyones talkin about it.

I am not worried about myself as I have a great resume... (bilingual and specialized training)... im worried about the support staff, nurses, and newer officers that have a good chance of losing their jobs.. security is essential so most of us will keep our jobs... now we cant stick 400 guards at JI and MI and even CBI... they have enough staff already... they are making new units however that will take time... I know for a fact that many will get transfered hours away from their famillies and friends and thats what is going to suck... this may not work but why not give it a try... our union is very strong so im sure that somethings will change but we dont know what yet... weve only known for 3 days now.

[Booter22]

signed.

[silverstarmazda]

signed

[MarkWB]

signed!

[Punkrockjohn]

I couldn't believe this when I first heard it on the news

[CoolColombian]

Signed.

[MarkWB]

I couldn't believe this when I first heard it on the news

I know right? Where are they gonna' put Bernardo and that Shafia dude if they close Kingston...I don't want them in Brampton or Lindsay, LOL.

[krimsalt]

Signed..

In all honesty if the gov'd wants to save money, why not just cut all the amenities given to the inmates that all us citizens have to work hard for daily??

[terapr0]

Kingston pen is old and expensive to run, why should we as taxpayers keep throwing money at maintaining an ageing, redundant facility?? Sucks about your job, but in this economy, the government has to make tough decisions, and closing the oldest prison in Canada is one of them. Everything about that facility is outdated and costly to replace / maintain. I've never been inside Kingston, but I have toured Millhaven, Millbrook, Warkworth, Torontos Don Jail and the former Rideau correctional center (none of these as an inmate btw), and while nowhere near as old as Kingston, they were all showing their age. It made sense to close Millbrook, Don & Rideau. We don’t need MORE prisons, we need more EFFICIENT prisons. Prisons that are cheaper to heat, cheaper to staff, cheaper to maintain. Prisons that are more flexible and have modern systems in place to protect the inmates and the staff. NO other industry would still be using technology or operating facilities that are 100+ yrs old, especially one funded by taxpayers in such a difficult economy. I sympathise with your plight - I really do - but I also understand why they want to close it down.

This kind of reminds me of the old hydroelectric generating stations in Niagara Falls. I absolutely love the buildings (Canadian Niagara Power Co, the Ontario Power Co, and the Electrical Development Co) and have invested a great deal of time and money researching and exploring them. They're magnificent structures and it kills me to see them abandoned. They were large employers in the area and its a shame to see them rotting away. For the longest time I just couldn’t figure out why our government would have shut down such magnificent, genuinely important facilities. But you know why they were closed? They were old, expensive and wildly inefficient. They produced an outdated type of electricity that few customers wanted, they cost too much to maintain, were due for massive repairs and didn’t make sense to keep in operation. They were replaced by the Sir Adam Beck GS which makes more power for less money than all 3 of the old plants combined. It sucks, but the dollars and sense are impossible to ignore.

With that being said, I hope that if Kingston is shut down, that you get transferred to another facility. CSC still has plenty of jails and prisons and I'm sure they'll work you in somewhere.

[terapr0]

Signed..

In all honesty if the gov'd wants to save money, why not just cut all the amenities given to the inmates that all us citizens have to work hard for daily??

lol have you ever been into a supermax prison? There arent exactly "amenities". Its no club med. Spend 1 week, no, 1 day, inside kingston and tell me how fabulous the amenities are. Biggest expenses by FAR are payroll and maintenance.

I'm not saying prison guards are overpaid or undeserving of what they get. Theirs is a tough, nasty job that few of us would ever want. They earn their money working in difficult conditions with violent criminals. Just saying that it isnt food bills that cost $120million a year.

[BIRDFLU]

lol have you ever been into a supermax prison? There arent exactly "amenities". Its no club med. Spend 1 week, no, 1 day, inside kingston and tell me how fabulous the amenities are. Biggest expenses by FAR are payroll and maintenance.

I'm not saying prison guards are overpaid or undeserving of what they get. Theirs is a tough, nasty job that few of us would ever want. They earn their money working in difficult conditions with violent criminals. Just saying that it isnt food bills that cost $120million a year.

Yeah well here is what most people dont get... yes it cost them 120 million year to maintain the place... however... think about all the money wasted in renovations over the last 175 years there.... that has to be worth something... the place is running fine and there is no reason why it should be closed down... half the gov officials are making 500+ k a year.. if tax payers should be paying more in taxes this should not be a reason to argue or fight because its a basic necessity.. we cant live without the prison system and trust me when I say shit will hit the fan soon it will...the inmates are just as upset as we are and are already starting to act up... there has already been several staff assaults and its been 2, 3 days... lose 120mil a year to maintain that but spend 1 bil building new facilities for these guys in the next 5 years... that makes no sens...

[terapr0]

Yeah well here is what most people dont get... yes it cost them 120 million year to maintain the place... however... think about all the money wasted in renovations over the last 175 years there....

How is facility maintenance "waste" ? Are you seriously proposing that we house inmates in same dungeon like setting that was considered acceptable 175yrs ago?? Is that the type of conditions you'd like to work in??


half the gov officials are making 500+ k a year..

NOT true. I'd rather not name names or specific positions, but my uncle spent his career with corrections canada. Worked his way up from a guard to deputy director level and I know he wasnt making 500k/yr before retiring several years ago. He made a decent living, but it wasnt anywhere NEAR what you're saying. The prime minister only makes $317,000/yr. Dont believe everything you're union stewards tell you.


the inmates are just as upset as we are and are already starting to act up...

When arent the prisoners upset about something?

[rukus]

i don't see a reason for keeping the place open. its old, decrepit, and the ,money can be spent elsewhere, while the inmates can be moved. its not like they;re releasing them.

[FoXy]

I agree they should just close it and use it for something else. Most employees will get rolocated. There are 6 prisons in teh Kingston area so it's not like they can't shuffle people. I know for a fact that my company was going to be working on a large reno for KP and it was going to cost a ton of money, ain't happening now. Who know's what will happen but one petition isn't going to change anything. We arent talking about a heritage building or a museum. We are talking about home to 600 inmates. Decisions dont just get changed like that *snaps*

Kingston is a military/school/hospital town, there are plenty of government places to apply to. This is probably for the better... even tho it is sad for some.

[BIRDFLU]

They have already spent the money to update the prison... all the updates now are minor... thats what im trying to say... you think it will cost more to keep something that is up already and running and staffed or make new units and transfer all these inmates out... it just doesnt make sens... they are closing down 3 jails that are running just fine... they are doing budget cuts in the wrong places... all those other jails mentionned are at max capacity.. they are building small 80 bed units at a few jails but that isnt enough and wont work... Kingston Pen is a protective custody jail.. you cannot mix its population with other jails... hence why we get all the ass holes and dangerous inmates... I can tell you right now its not for the better.. i know I can transfer out and be fine.. this is a bad idea and will end up costing tax payers about 10x more within the next 5 years and now they have an excuse... anyways dont sign it if you dont want to.. if you knew more about it and kept on top if it you would understand our anger towards the situation.

Thank you to the ones that care and signed

[MarkWB]

Signed..

In all honesty if the gov'd wants to save money, why not just cut all the amenities given to the inmates that all us citizens have to work hard for daily??

Because those inmates paid for those amenities? Not everyone who gets arrested never had a job and never paid taxes lol shit 95% of them smoke, so even if they never worked a day in their life their fueling Ontario's economy. Either way, IMHO, I don't think closing Kingston is going to be cost effective in the long run...I'm not an economist though.

[Slade]

Have they offered you any type of pay out, or relocation to another job?

The government often supplies this as an alternative, and not while only offering you another job, they often pay for your move, difference for a new house, and all expenditures associated with it.

My uncle works in Warkworth as a guard, maybe 4 days a week, often a lot less, and clears over 6 digits a year, for a guard. He just told me he is getting ~14k back from income tax alone.

I did a lot VIP moves for government Ontario, there are a lot of people that make more then enough money to retire early.

There is even 2 sections for Community Safety & Correctional Services on the Public Sector Salary Disclosure.

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/2012/ministries12d.html

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/publications/salarydisclosure/2012/ministries12e.html

I don't really have anything to comment on, Id rather the goons be locked up then running the streets.

[BIRDFLU]

Because those inmates paid for those amenities? Not everyone who gets arrested never had a job and never paid taxes lol shit 95% of them smoke, so even if they never worked a day in their life their fueling Ontario's economy. Either way, IMHO, I don't think closing Kingston is going to be cost effective in the long run...I'm not an economist though.

They have already invested too much in the place to close it... it makes no sens at all... the inmates get HBO.. **** i dont even get HBO at home... they get schooling, they get paid to work everyday.. and even if they dont work they still get basic allowance... even in the long run, it is still not worth closing down the jail because they have invested so much in it to make it what it is today... all the major stuff has already been done to its just basic maintenance now... yes its a bit more than other places but its still houses some of the most dangerous offenders in Canada and sometimes thats what it takes...

they are going to try and overwhelm the system with the new C-10 bill which essentially means anything you do wrong you go to jail for... provincial jails are full... once everything is full then guess what... some rich guy will say ill build the jail and the cons work for me... ad essentially someone gets rich... dont worry tho those government officials that are allowing this will get a nice hefty cheque... its always about money...

Closing this jail will do way more harm than good

[Peter]

Signed

[Noisy Crow]

They have already invested too much in the place to close it...

Money that has been spent is gone... and shouldn't factor into the decsion. What matters is the future costs.


I feel for you, it sucks that you will have to relocate. Also sucks for anyone who ends up loosing his or her job. But as has already been stated, if there is legitimate cost-savings to be had then it is the right thing to do for the taxpayers. Personally I'm tired of seeing the amount of tax I pay go up, up, up while service levels go down, down, down.

[queens49]

Money that has been spent is gone... and shouldn't factor into the decsion. What matters is the future costs.


I feel for you, it sucks that you will have to relocate. Also sucks for anyone who ends up loosing his or her job. But as has already been stated, if there is legitimate cost-savings to be had then it is the right thing to do for the taxpayers. Personally I'm tired of seeing the amount of tax I pay go up, up, up while service levels go down, down, down.

Totally agree. It's future costs you have to think about. If it's cheaper long-term to close the prison, than it's the correct decision. It's like a modded car, if it gets old and each year it costs you more and more to maintain/run, are you going to keep it because you spent a lot of money previously to mod it?

[BIRDFLU]

Money that has been spent is gone... and shouldn't factor into the decsion. What matters is the future costs.


I feel for you, it sucks that you will have to relocate. Also sucks for anyone who ends up loosing his or her job. But as has already been stated, if there is legitimate cost-savings to be had then it is the right thing to do for the taxpayers. Personally I'm tired of seeing the amount of tax I pay go up, up, up while service levels go down, down, down.

We have been having meetings all week, here is what the public isnt understanding.. they are closing this jail that houses 550 maximum security inmtes (BERNADO, WILLIAMS, SHAFIA, etc) all the beds accross the country (CELLS) are taken.. so they are adding to new jails.. (2x 96 units).. so that takes care of 200 inmates... now what about the other 200?? Well here is what they are doing.. the conservative government who is all about making our communities safer... is making management drop the classification to our maximum security inmates (who usually arent allowed parol, etc) so now half of those inmates are medium security classification who will be paroled at 1/2 of their sentence.. where do these people live? In our communities. So right now a convict who has killed, raped and done other bad deeds, are being reclassified and given the chance of early parole.. and not just that, because of the new C-10 bill that will place more people in jail there will be a surplus of inmates and no beds. Again forcing the system to reclassify them and give them early parole.

Close down 1000 cells, and then create 200 new cells (across Ontario and QC) and then introduce bill that will double our population of inmates.. not just that 2 years ago they hired 2000 correctional officers and now they want to fire 800.. it makes no sens.



Here is something else that will make you laugh, I can't lose my job... i can only be relocated.. because I am being FORCED to relocate I get a relocation allowance. If I do this voluntarily I get 5000 dollars to move (minimum of 200km).. well now I am being forced so there is no limit. So close down KP, RTC and the jail in QC and relocate all those employees.. this is what is included in that relocation. I get my house (houses I own rentals in Kingston), I get the evaluated.. lets say 300k each. I own 3 of them.. so I have 3 mortgages that I need to break (cost of breaking 3 mortgages when I have 3, 4 years left to pay on that contract will be about 60 000$). If my houses do not sell, they government is forced to buy them from me and re sell them (so now I have 3x realtor fees of 3% of 300 000 (10k per house).

So now that is 300k x 3 houses + 30k in realtor fees + 60k to break mortgages + whatever other expenses it costs for me to relocate my whole familly... ( if accross Canada that is about 20k)

Add that up and its close to 1 MILLION to relocate just mysefl... well now they have to also relocate 600 other CSC Correctional officers as well... Could be 1 Mil x 600 guards?

Now how much will it cost for all those new units? 2x 96 bed units will cost them close to 80 million up front and then maintenance after that.
Relocating 1000 inmates that dont want to move... probably 500 Emergency response team extractions and escorts (at 80$ per house X 8 ERT members X 3 hours minimum (relocate them atleast 2 hours away so more realisticalyl 8 hours)
That about 2000$ just in ERT response per offender to move them...

All this is going to cost taxe payers way more than 120 million to keep this jail open.
When we ask what the plan is? They answer well we are going to sit down with your union and discuss a plan of action... WHICH MEANS THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PLAN AS OF RIGHT NOW.
120 million a year is nothing when you think about these dirty ****ing convicts getting early parole... these are just some of the little facts about this... there is way more. Watch the news, we are going to have 4000+ CX staff infront of the parliament soon.
Good thing is that Police officers understand and are on our side... so they wont do anything about it either...

Thoughts and comments?

[terapr0]

I can't lose my job... i can only be relocated..

That my friend, is why I hate unions. Why should ANYONE be invincible? What makes you so special? Nobody deserves absolute security, and no organiziation should be prohibited from firing an employee that isnt needed, or who isnt performing (not that I'm implying you are....I'm just saying).

I also see absolutely NO reason why the government should be compelled to compensate you in any way for the 3 rental properties you own. How can you possibly argue that you'd need to sell them just because you've moved? If you cant afford to hire a property manager then sell them....thats your problem, not the governments. If moving isnt a realistic option given your situation, then quit and find another job in kingston. Do you expect the government to pay for your kids jungle gym (hypothetical) because you cant take it with you too? The only system thats broken is one that allows unions and their cushy entitled attitudes.

anyways, I'd argue this point further but its 5:03 on a friday and I've already been here since 7:30. I could go on for ages but I just wanna get home lol

[Burner]

That my friend, is why I hate unions. Why should ANYONE be invincible? What makes you so special? Nobody deserves absolute security, and no organiziation should be prohibited from firing an employee that isnt needed, or who isnt performing (not that I'm implying you are....I'm just saying).

I also see absolutely NO reason why the government should be compelled to compensate you in any way for the 3 rental properties you own. How can you possibly argue that you'd need to sell them just because you've moved? If you cant afford to hire a property manager then sell them....thats your problem, not the governments. If moving isnt a realistic option given your situation, then quit and find another job in kingston. Do you expect the government to pay for your kids jungle gym (hypothetical) because you cant take it with you too? The only system thats broken is one that allows unions and their cushy entitled attitudes.

anyways, I'd argue this point further but its 5:03 on a friday and I've already been here since 7:30. I could go on for ages but I just wanna get home lol

This post reveals your absolute ignorance of the role unions play in the workplace today and how the employer/union relationship works. Unions don't make lazy people invincible. In some cases in makes them even more vulnerable because the company will just fire them without cause and let the long appeals process through the union run it's course, all while the employee is struggling to survive financially. Many people fail to realize that unions and employers agree to terms and sign contracts. The process is a lot like haggling for the best price on a new car. It's a give and take. The best deal is always the one where each party feels they gave a bit.

On that point, the relocation allowance that BIRDFLU is referring to is built into his collective agreement. If the government was forward thinking regarding the decisions they've made here to close these facilities, then I'm sure this allowance would have been a major issue addressed in their last collective agreement. They're telling him now that if he wants to continue the career that he's chosen (and I assume went to school and had specialized training for), he has to move. The roots that he's put down in Kingston so that he could pursue his career choice are going to be ripped up and put somewhere else in the country if he wants to continue this career. His collective agreement allows him to be compensated for the expenses he'll incur to make that move. What's wrong with that?

[KenYork]

I don't see the big issue is the closing of KP. It is more in what is replacing it and where the inmates are going and what public communities will be effected. Lets just say they are going to rebuild withing 50km from where you are living. What happens then to your thoughts.
There is absolute nothing wrong in closing KP. What is wrong is what is replacing the service KP is providing and believe it is lacking to the safety of the public. This should be the publics greatest concern.

Bring in capital punishment. I don't believe you still have equal rights when you've violated someone elses. I don't mind giving a strike of grace, but we can keep paying to keep them alive either.

[BIRDFLU]

This post reveals your absolute ignorance of the role unions play in the workplace today and how the employer/union relationship works. Unions don't make lazy people invincible. In some cases in makes them even more vulnerable because the company will just fire them without cause and let the long appeals process through the union run it's course, all while the employee is struggling to survive financially. Many people fail to realize that unions and employers agree to terms and sign contracts. The process is a lot like haggling for the best price on a new car. It's a give and take. The best deal is always the one where each party feels they gave a bit.

On that point, the relocation allowance that BIRDFLU is referring to is built into his collective agreement. If the government was forward thinking regarding the decisions they've made here to close these facilities, then I'm sure this allowance would have been a major issue addressed in their last collective agreement. They're telling him now that if he wants to continue the career that he's chosen (and I assume went to school and had specialized training for), he has to move. The roots that he's put down in Kingston so that he could pursue his career choice are going to be ripped up and put somewhere else in the country if he wants to continue this career. His collective agreement allows him to be compensated for the expenses he'll incur to make that move. What's wrong with that?

Well said about the union... they also owe us a new contract and they have been pushing it back for 2 years now.. (by law until a new one is signed we use the old one)... there is a lot more to this then what I wrote down and I am saying... what you dont get is going to be the potential danger to the staff, town of Kingston (300+ federal employees relocated) + they wont get taxes from KP site because it will no longer be used.. danger to the community when they offenders get reclassified and released early, and they have now taken Correctional officers out of half way houses so when that maximum security inmate gets released he has no one to supervise him... these people are killers, rapists and in general bad people... this is not a case of wrong place at the wrong time.. they have been in and out of the system for years now.

and the reason I chose this job was for the job security and the pension... i was a contractor before this and had to pay my own benefits and funds for my own pension and I didnt like it... dont come and complain on this site that some people have job security and that it isnt a good thing because its a great thing... when and if we get fu cked like the states and you lose your job.. you will think why didnt i get a job with better job security... its a good thing brother and I think everyone will agree... and we arent invincible either.. lots of lazy people and people that use excessive use of forces get fired all the time...

[BIRDFLU]

I don't see the big issue is the closing of KP. It is more in what is replacing it and where the inmates are going and what public communities will be effected. Lets just say they are going to rebuild withing 50km from where you are living. What happens then to your thoughts.
There is absolute nothing wrong in closing KP. What is wrong is what is replacing the service KP is providing and believe it is lacking to the safety of the public. This should be the publics greatest concern.

Bring in capital punishment. I don't believe you still have equal rights when you've violated someone elses. I don't mind giving a strike of grace, but we can keep paying to keep them alive either.

in all honesty if they would have told us they are moving us 50km away in a new 500 unit jail then we would go for it... but not only was it poor to no planning... they are only building units to house 1/4 of these inmates, they are closing down a
treatment center fr mentally ill inmates and they are now throwing them in the general population wether it be in or out of the jail...

KP is also a protective custody jail so people that cant function with other inmates... because of gangs, their crimes and other reasons... what is going to happen to them? It is poor planning and if they had a plan and would have consulted us then I would be all for it but they didnt and this is going to affect a lot of people.