Autotech internals - hpfp woes

[mspeed3]

Hey guys,
I installed the autotech internals a few weeks ago and it seemed to have gone smoothly until this weekend. I noticed a bit of oil on my driveway on Friday and I discovered that it was leaking from the fuel pump. It was the o-ring which I tried to re-use the one that was originally on the pump.

Fixed that up with a new o-ring. That's not the only problem.. I noticed that the oil smelled like gasoline. I checked the seal within the pump and it's fine, so I suspect that the internals are leaking fuel at the join under the spring.

I did an oil change right away, but I'm reluctant to put the pump back on. I have it off the car right now anyways, so I'm thinking about sending it to CPE. I believe they will install their internals for you and you get a life time warranty.


What do you guys think? Another option is to put the pump back on and see what happens. I re-tightened the whole thing, maybe she was just a bit loose... doubtful though.

Lesson learned the hard way.. which some of you warned me about.. shoulda got CPE in the first place

[mspeed3]

I should mention that I hold pressure 1800 + at wot...

[Booostin]

Hmmm... thanks for the update!

Something to think about...

[mspeed3]

No problem.

I'm thinking it's probably defective internals.. which blows. I contacted Autotech, they just recommended that I check the seal within the pump.. which was fine. I think I might contact them again. However, this experience isn't pleasant.. no one want gas in their oil.. bad news.

[Fobio]

There's also a possibility that the gas smell in your oil is jsut from you running rich...and now perhaps even "richer" and compounding the issue of fuel dilution in the oil, with higher fuel pressure, which forces even more gasoline to seep down the cylinder walls.

[mspeed3]

What would you recommend I do to test the levels of fuel in the oil? I could slap her back on and send the oil out for testing a few weeks later. I'm assuming they will be able to tell me if the levels are above normal.

My AFR target is at 11.5 at wot. Part throttle callibration was also done..

Thanks Vince



There's also a possibility that the gas smell in your oil is jsut from you running rich...and now perhaps even "richer" and compounding the issue of fuel dilution in the oil, with higher fuel pressure, which forces even more gasoline to seep down the cylinder walls.

[J_Logik]

Hey mspeed3, sorry to hear about the issues you are having. Mine has been in for a little over a week now as well and I haven't seen any oil on the driveway, nor what I believe to be any fuel leaking from the pump, but I'm going to check more closely on my driveway now.

Hopefully you just got a defective set of internals and nothing else is wrong.

[Fobio]

What would you recommend I do to test the levels of fuel in the oil? I could slap her back on and send the oil out for testing a few weeks later. I'm assuming they will be able to tell me if the levels are above normal.

My AFR target is at 11.5 at wot. Part throttle callibration was also done..

Thanks Vince

Assuming there's no direct connection that could leak fuel DIRECTLY from the fuel pump into the crankcase, I'd think that fuel would only get into the oil through the combustion chamber...like everyone else. Of coruse, excessive fuel dilution is a sympton or sign of something else. If you send the oil for UOA, comparing it to other guys with similar mods should tell the story.

[mspeed3]

I think that's the best course of action before I commit to the cpe upgrade.. I'll keep you guys posted.. I put it back on and keep an eye on it. (or nose)

[Elusivellama]

For what it's worth, I've had my Autotech internals installed for about 4 - 5 months (Jimmy at SP did the install), and I've been monitoring HPFP Act. Pressure almost every day since then. It's still holding ~1800 (give or take a bit either way) at WOT, no leaks on the driveway or anything out of the ordinary yet. Oil still smells like fuel as usual (before and after HPFP install).

[mspeed3]

For what it's worth, I've had my Autotech internals installed for about 4 - 5 months (Jimmy at SP did the install), and I've been monitoring HPFP Act. Pressure almost every day since then. It's still holding ~1800 (give or take a bit either way) at WOT, no leaks on the driveway or anything out of the ordinary yet. Oil still smells like fuel as usual (before and after HPFP install).

Really? It smells like fuel before and after HPFP?

Hrmmm.. maybe it's normal, I just didnt notice before... my catch can oil smells like fuel.. not crazy fuel.. but like oil with some part fuel in it..

[VertigoM]

I have Autotech internals on the way (to be installed by Jimmy as well). I hope I don't run into the same issue!

[mspeed3]

Can anyone else confirm some fuel smell from the motor? Would be appreciated. Just check the dip stick..

[rzapata]

I smell gas in the oil (dip stick) all the time. It could just be the car running rich so I don't worry about it too much. I check my oil levels at least twice a month and smell it at the same time and I do notice a stronger smell of gas as the weeks pass after the oil change. Note that the smell is actually not as strong as when you smell pure gas. Just a mixture of gas and oil.

[mspeed3]

I changed the oil and replaced the o-ring on the fuel pump to stop the leak.. Also as I mentioned before, I checked the seal within fuel pump and it was fine. However, I did notice some very fine "scratches" (I'm talking microscopic) on the piston that moves in and out of the pump, which is driven by the cam. I don't know if that could be it... don't think so. It might be worth mentioning that they weren't there when I installed the internals.

After doing some research, the gas smell seems to be a common thing in our motors. I just checked for odour again on the new oil after about 50 km and the smell seems to be persistent. I just don't feel comfortable with it.. I'll be sending the old oil to the lab for diagnostic. Also, I'll send it again in a few weeks on the fresh oil.

I'll report back to you guys when the results come in.

[Fobio]

Peter. Don't become the next hypochondriac on a witch hunt about gas in oil. All of us suffer from fuel dilution. Some worse than others. And of course there are those who spend more time chasing gremlins than enjoying the car.

[MarineMazda]

Peter. Don't become the next hypochondriac on a witch hunt about gas in oil. All of us suffer from fuel dilution. Some worse than others. And of course there are those who spend more time chasing gremlins than enjoying the car.

I agree with Vince, I have a similar smell to this but near the end of my oils life...4200km mark (side note I am also BT which moves more air through the Engine). If you are really worried about this hook up a OCC and watch it work, the can will assist in removing some of the fuel from the oil.

In terms of battling fuel Dilution, using a solid Synthetic Diesel oil (Rotella T6) and regular oil changes work best. I would also do a compression test to check if you have ring wear which could cause fuel to enter the crankcase.

I have had no problems with my auto tech internals and have been running them almost 20k

[Elusivellama]

Really? It smells like fuel before and after HPFP?

Hrmmm.. maybe it's normal, I just didnt notice before... my catch can oil smells like fuel.. not crazy fuel.. but like oil with some part fuel in it..

Yes, really. My car is still on the OTS stage 1 map, which I know runs rich. This is the reason why I went with Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30 (because of its additive package which resists fuel dilution), and I'm now on Rotella T6. I used to run 7000km oil changes, I'm now at 5000km oil change intervals. I check and smell the oil regularly and it's just part and parcel of the MS3 platform (and likely other DI engines).

[VectorForFood]

My AFR's are running at 8.6 under WOT.

However, I suspect my BPV is leaking badly, another one is on order.

[SomeGuy]

My AFR's are running at 8.6 under WOT.

However, I suspect my BPV is leaking badly, another one is on order.

8.6?!?! Really!?!? Post some logs...I can't see just a leaky BPV causing your AFR's to be that rich.

[BlueStreak]

My AFR's are running at 8.6 under WOT.

However, I suspect my BPV is leaking badly, another one is on order.

A leaky BPV does not affect AFRs. It affects your ability to reach boost targets.

What are your LTFTs under idle and cruise? If you have a leak, it may show up there as a very high positive/negative value.

Alternatively, the very rich AFRs can be due to the steering wheel angle sensor and generally rears its head when making a whole lot of power (Big turbo or aggressive meth/e85 tunes). I would bench this potential issue for now until other things are checked first.

[SomeGuy]

A leaky BPV does not affect AFRs. It affects your ability to reach boost targets.

What are your LTFTs under idle and cruise? If you have a leak, it may show up there as a very high positive/negative value.

Alternatively, the very rich AFRs can be due to the steering wheel angle sensor and generally rears its head when making a whole lot of power (Big turbo or aggressive meth/e85 tunes). I would bench this potential issue for now until other things are checked first.

If it was leaking to atmosphere (ie the seal of the BPV was gone) then it could run a bit rich right since you're losing air that the MAF has accounted for? But leaking boost back into the intake through the valve is obviously "fine" since you aren't losing air that's accounted for.

[BlueStreak]

If it was leaking to atmosphere (ie the seal of the BPV was gone) then it could run a bit rich right since you're losing air that the MAF has accounted for? But leaking boost back into the intake through the valve is obviously "fine" since you aren't losing air that's accounted for.

Correct.

Best thing to do is a boost leak test.

[mspeed3]

Ladies and gents. Let's put this topic to rest. Stinky fuel oil sample results below. Everyone go home.

Thanks for the advice re/ catch can.. Mspeed hooked that up few months back.

http://i.imgur.com/dyiOZ.jpg