High school kids make 68 year old bus monitor cry

[mazdabetty]

So I saw this today and it literally tore my heart into a million pieces.

WARNING: Do not watch the video unless you want to cry.... I didn't watch it, I don't think I would. Just reading the articles was enough to enrage me.

http://www.indiegogo.com/loveforkarenhklein?c=home&a=730004 <- Donate here if you want, I made a small contribution myself. It was just too horrible I couldn't help it!!


Source: http://datelinenews.org/karen-klein-bus-monitor-in-greece-ny-gets-support-after-bullying-video/99839

Karen Klein, Bus Monitor in Greece, NY, Gets Support After Bullying Video

Karen Klein, a 69-year-old school bus monitor for the Greece School District in Greece, New York is receiving an overwhelming support from various people after a video with students bullying her surfaced.

A widow of 17 years and a grandmother of eight, Karen worked as a bus driver in Greece, New York for 20 years, and has been a bus monitor for the last three years. Her duty is to ride in the bus with students, making sure that they behave themselves on the route to and from school for which she gets paid around $15,000 annually.

On June 19, 2012, a YouTube user named “Capitaltrigga” uploaded three videos of middle school students on Bus 784 on their way home from Athena Middle School in Greece, New York, mercilessly harassing their bus monitor, Karen Klein, mocking her for her weight, her low income, calling her a child rapist, and threatening to hurt her.


Throughout the ten minute video, four kids can be heard verbally berating the woman, calling her a bitch, fatass, poor, ugly, and various other words of the like.

At one point in the video, one of the kids yell, “You’re so ****in poor you fat ass,” in which Karen responds, “I try to live by some of these words, I try and it’s really hard,” referring to the words on her purse. Now, I don’t know about you, but that broke my ****ing heart.”

There’s even a point in the video where one of the kids touches Karen’s arm in an attempt to make fun of her.

In another point, a student says: ‘You’re so ugly, your kids should kill themselves.’ This comment hurt the most as one of her sons had indeed committed suicide 10 years ago, according to MSNBC.

Greece Central School District had contacted authorities Wednesday morning about the disturbing video.

According to WHEC.com, the four students who were involved will be forced to attend a meeting with their parents, lawyers, and the school superintendent. After the board and superintendent hear their cases, they will decide the appropriate disciplinary measures.

“All students found to have a role in this incident will face disciplinary action. Although their behavior was inexcusable, we also have concern for the safety of all involved. We urge patience to allow us to investigate and determine the appropriate discipline,” Assistant Superintendent Deb Hoeft said.

As of Thursday morning, more than 5,600 have donated more than $107,000 to give Karen Klein her dream vacation.

Karen’s daughter was so overwhelmed about the outpouring given to his mother.

“I am not really sure what the times are.. but she is just so overwhelmed by all the love and support she has received from everyone everywhere… She is just soooo amazed that there are so many good people still left in the world… She knows all kids are not bad,” she said.

Below is the bullying video of Karen Klein which already generated more than 300,000 views in Youtube.

[MarkWB]

This is sad indeed, but reality check...is anyone in shock and awe that high school kids made fat jokes about their bus driver?

[FoXy]

WOW, those kids should be expelled, or at least suspended for a longggg time. That is so unecessary. I feel awful for that poor woman.

[mazdabetty]

This is sad indeed, but reality check...is anyone in shock and awe that high school kids made fat jokes about their bus driver?

Not necessarily, but I think it was more than just a "fat joke"... this crossed the line to the point where the kids were provoking her and went as far as touching her. This is flat out harassment, not just poking fun at the crabby bus driver.

[RedRaptor]

This is sad indeed, but reality check...is anyone in shock and awe that high school kids made fat jokes about their bus driver?

No. But when it actually happens, its awful to see. This was beyond jokes, they verbally abused her. Some kid mentioned that all her family members killed themselves because of her and she will die soon of diabetes. I don't think abuse like that falls under a "joke".

If my son ever took part in something like that in the future, I'd teach him an old fashion lesson.

[Marta]

Not necessarily, but I think it was more than just a "fat joke"... this crossed the line to the point where the kids were provoking her and went as far as touching her. This is flat out harassment, not just poking fun at the crabby bus driver.

+1. That takes bullying to a whole new level. Can you imagine being disrespected like that by a bunch of snotty-nose kids, that were probably the age of her grandchildren, all for a mere 15grand a year? Thats disgusting and shameful and the parents of these so-called young adults should seriously reconsider their parenting skills (or lack thereof). SMH...disgusting.

[MarkWB]

I get it that this isn't ok and it obviously went beyond just joking around, but at the same time I'm not really "surprised."

And FoXy, expulsion is going to do nothing but turn kids who obviously already have problems into kids with worse problems, who will one day be everyones problem. To me, expelling a kid means the system gave up on the child that needed the most attention and the most support, not the most severe punishment. Something made these kids the way they are, making them an outcast (which I bet many of them were once before since they're so gladly taking part in bullying this driver) isn't going to help the situation at all.

And RedRaptor, really? You're going to beat some sense into your abusive child? Next he'll be out "giving old fashion lessons" to others, just like his old man.

[hgmahaha]

I got beat, it was effective :)

[Booter22]

No. But when it actually happens, its awful to see. This was beyond jokes, they verbally abused her. Some kid mentioned that all her family members killed themselves because of her and she will die soon of diabetes. I don't think abuse like that falls under a "joke".

If my son ever took part in something like that in the future, I'd teach him an old fashion lesson.

hit the nail on the head, i think its more so the lack of parenting or any guidence at home that would let these kids think they are above others. maybe there parents act that way too so they try and get away with it. sad to see what extremes kids are getting to, but good to know there is action taken against them.

when we were kids and bad we got the "wooden spoon" lol and if we swore we had to brush our teeth with soap. but with out any order or discipline kids just run wild. its the " new" way of thinking that you can talk to kids and they will act as they should but that i have yet to see be effective, our parents got physical discipline when they were in school. they seem to be fine.. well most of them. :P

[Ozil]

I got beat, it was effective :)

...lmao, same.. it sure was :chuckle

[jonjon72]

Ah, wishing for the good old days when children were actually disciplined or given a beat down for disrespecting others. Glad to hear the some of these kids that were identified now need police protection from all the threats.

[MarkWB]

Go to a prison and ask the inmates how many of them got beat, LOL...99% did, but they still wound up in jail. Beating your kids just teaches them that violence is the ultimate answer, mix that with a kid who's already into bullying and you've got a real mess on your hands, I'm telling you.

[chan7]

Wow... very sad to see, but not surprised at these punk kids. Karma's a b****!

[Junior]

I hate kids.

[krimsalt]

hit the nail on the head, i think its more so the lack of parenting or any guidence at home that would let these kids think they are above others. maybe there parents act that way too so they try and get away with it. sad to see what extremes kids are getting to, but good to know there is action taken against them.

when we were kids and bad we got the "wooden spoon" lol and if we swore we had to brush our teeth with soap. but with out any order or discipline kids just run wild. its the " new" way of thinking that you can talk to kids and they will act as they should but that i have yet to see be effective, our parents got physical discipline when they were in school. they seem to be fine.. well most of them. :P

I agree with this. And yes, parents are too stupid these days. They look at the government on how to raise the children, and the government makes a bad decision (as always) and makes corporal punishment illegal. F*** that im going to slap my kid across the back of the head if he ever pulled that off, and ban him from entertainment

[aZuMi]

And RedRaptor, really? You're going to beat some sense into your abusive child? Next he'll be out "giving old fashion lessons" to others, just like his old man.

Getting beaten or hit by your parents isn't abusive. It's old fashioned discipline and it's a form of parents' love. Happened to most of us, lol.

[krimsalt]

Getting beaten or hit by your parents isn't abusive. It's old fashioned discipline and it's a form of parents' love. Happened to most of us, lol.

It's good ol' classical conditioning!!!

[mazdabetty]

hahaha, hell growing up in a european family, damn straight I was slapped if I mouthed off!!! :chuckle

On a side note, the donations have reached almost a quarter mil!!! It's amazing how many people this has touched... she will have a well deserved, easy retirement, that is for sure :)

[RedRaptor]

And RedRaptor, really? You're going to beat some sense into your abusive child? Next he'll be out "giving old fashion lessons" to others, just like his old man.

Yes really. We're too soft on kids nowadays.

You're going to teach me on how to parent my kid?

Wait until you become a parent first before commenting on raising kids. I can tell you that you don't have a clue until you become one.

[RedRaptor]

Go to a prison and ask the inmates how many of them got beat, LOL...99% did, but they still wound up in jail. Beating your kids just teaches them that violence is the ultimate answer, mix that with a kid who's already into bullying and you've got a real mess on your hands, I'm telling you.

This is completely stupid and has no facts surrounding it. Have you ever been to prison? Or are you talking out of your arse or watching too many reality shows?

Not beating your kids when they are young results in kids like you who mouth off but have no idea what you're talking about.

[MarkWB]

Ok guys, so at the next meet, I'm going to have you all make undeserved comments about me. All you wish dash cams can film, then we'll start up a charity. I'll cut you all in!

The fact people are donating money to this woman is seriously a joke. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for her, but if I'm donating cash to a charity it better be getting a homeless person off the street, or keeping a child with cancer alive, or something of real value. Making her richer isn't going to stop people from making fat jokes or commenting on her sons suicide. It's nice to see people care about this, but it'd be even nicer to see people caring about more widespread problems.

And I still can't believe you guys are shocked into sadness about this...YOU USE THE INTERNET. Jesus...have you never been on 4chan?!

[fywdyl]

Go to a prison and ask the inmates how many of them got beat, LOL...99% did, but they still wound up in jail. Beating your kids just teaches them that violence is the ultimate answer, mix that with a kid who's already into bullying and you've got a real mess on your hands, I'm telling you.

Don't try to sound "smart" and start pulling out stats that you can't back up. First of all, you need to prove that there is a correlation between being beat as a child and going to jail. Second of all, if you go and ask anyone born between the 60s-80s, chances are, they were beat when they were kids.

Skewed statistics are skewed.

[MarkWB]

This is completely stupid and has no facts surrounding it. Have you ever been to prison? Or are you talking out of your arse or waiting too many reality shows?

Not beating your kids when they are young results in kids like you who mouth off but have no idea what you're talking about.

If I told you I'd been, would your view change? No, so that's irrelevant. I also hate reality shows. I also happen to work in social services, and spent over a year of that time working with...you guessed it...at risk high school aged youth.

Maybe it's you who has no idea what they're talking about? Are you a parent? Are you an at risk youth? Are you a bus driver?! NO! The only thing you have to offer this thread is the biased opinion of someone who's bitter that they got beat by their parents and some kids don't. Go ahead and tell me you've never done anything wrong in your life, and I'll point you out a very confused young man.

[cwp_sedan]

Beat your kids!

:gone




For real though. Those kids were little shits and deserved an ass whooping. If my kids (when I have them) ever speak like that they will get the same thing as RR said. There is absolutely NO excuse for it. EVER!

[RedRaptor]

Ok guys, so at the next meet, I'm going to have you all make undeserved comments about me. All you wish dash cams can film, then we'll start up a charity. I'll cut you all in!

The fact people are donating money to this woman is seriously a joke. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for her, but if I'm donating cash to a charity it better be getting a homeless person off the street, or keeping a child with cancer alive, or something of real value. Making her richer isn't going to stop people from making fat jokes or commenting on her sons suicide. It's nice to see people care about this, but it'd be even nicer to see people caring about more widespread problems.

And I still can't believe you guys are shocked into sadness about this...YOU USE THE INTERNET. Jesus...have you never been on 4chan?!

We aren't trying to be mean to you so please don't play the victim card on us. Its just that you should really think about some of the things you say on this forum. I was never on your case before but reading more of your posts lately, most of them sound like ramblings of a kids with limited experience in life. Again, I am not out to attack you personally and you could be a well educated and classy individual in real life.

In my ethnic culture (Chinese), we are taught to respect your elders. Talking like those kids did to any senior is wrong and if the kids aren't taught a lesson now, they will either end up dead from talking shit to the wrong person or in jail.

The amount of money the charity has raised is an reflection of how strongly people feel about this.

Do your time in life kid and some of these things will come to you.

[MarkWB]

Don't try to sound "smart" and start pulling out stats that you can't back up. First of all, you need to prove that there is a correlation between being beat as a child and going to jail. Second of all, if you go and ask anyone born between the 60s-80s, chances are, they were beat when they were kids.

Skewed statistics are skewed.

Come meet some of the people I know got beat senseless when they were kids and teens and they'll tell you themselves...I once watched the mother of a 19 year old chase him with a shoe and throw it at his head. He just recently finished a two year sentence for stabbing someone. I wonder where he learned that behavior?

Oh, and in case you wan't some actual statistics, go open a child psychology text and read why modern psychologists (who now have clients who were kids in the 60s-80s) say beating your kids does more harm than good.

[RedRaptor]

If I told you I'd been, would your view change? No, so that's irrelevant. I also hate reality shows. I also happen to work in social services, and spent over a year of that time working with...you guessed it...at risk high school aged youth.

Maybe it's you who has no idea what they're talking about? Are you a parent? Are you an at risk youth? Are you a bus driver?! NO! The only thing you have to offer this thread is the biased opinion of someone who's bitter that they got beat by their parents and some kids don't. Go ahead and tell me you've never done anything wrong in your life, and I'll point you out a very confused young man.

Yup, when I got into trouble my parents would teach me a lesson the old fashion way. While it sucked back then, its completely worked and I am a lot more disciplined now as a person.

Bitter? Really? Do you pass judgement on all of the troubled youths you work with in you social work? Geez, I hope not.

EDIT: I'm gonna STFU and not act like a stupid kid myself by arguing on the Internet with Mark Winning Blue.

[Booter22]

no one is saying go beat your kid when they are bad, but you need to make sure they know whats right and wrong and have proper punishments for each, i cant count the time ive spent standing in the corner when i was bad, or the privileges that were removed, or chores i had to do as punishment, groudings and what not. never heard of 4chan so no. but to let your kids just get by doing what they want watching the tv that is meant for adults and playing video games over there age group. thats just a start. heck i remember being a kid and i couldnt even watch the simpsons in my own house because my parents knew it was not appropriate for kids.

[fywdyl]

Come meet some of the people I know got beat senseless when they were kids and teens and they'll tell you themselves...I once watched the mother of a 19 year old chase him with a shoe and throw it at his head. He just recently finished a two year sentence for stabbing someone. I wonder where he learned that behavior?

Oh, and in case you wan't some actual statistics, go open a child psychology text and read why modern psychologists (who now have clients who were kids in the 60s-80s) say beating your kids does more harm than good.

There's a difference between beating your kids out of frustration and disciplining them.

BTW, you just posted another skewed statistic... go open up a statistic textbook and learn about stats before making claims.

[krimsalt]

In my ethnic culture (Chinese), we are taught to respect your elders.

This is what's missing in our culture. The idea of freedom means to do what you want when you want. We need morals like this indoctrined into our culture. In Chinese culture people won't feel as tempted to do something "bad" (i.e steal), if they believe they won't be caught - because they are indoctrined with discipline and the idea that doing wrong is doing wrong. North American born kids severely need the instilled ideologies on them at youth. Parents need to sit down and discuss the consequences of doing wrong.

My mom never really beat me to be honest, but she scared me s***less... From pictures and stories she told me I was always afraid of doing drugs or getting in the wrong crowds of people. She instilled this on my at less than 5 years old. Parents nowadays wait until their kids are 10+ before talking serious with them, by then it's too late. What sticks at an age younger than 5 sticks forever. So parents, talk to your kids at a younger age, and actually PAY ATTENTION to them when they are young.

[terapr0]

I must say, she's not doing a very good job of "monitoring" that bus. They're paying her to be the adult in change. The one who puts their foot down and doesnt allow this type of shit to happen. Today the kids were bullying her, but I'm sure they spend most of their time bullying other students while she just sits back earning $15,000/yr to do NOTHING. If she cant stand up to a couple of punk kids, why the hell would she take that job?? They're walking all over her. She doesnt even try and be assertive.

As upsetting as it is to see her getting berated like that, I'm equally apalled at how she just took it. She obviously doesnt have the chops to deal with mouthy highschool kids. I think she's better suited to life as a greeter at walmart or something a little less stressful. At least transfer her to a bus carrying preschoolers, because she didnt even try and act like the authority figure they're paying her to be.

But yea, of course I'm upset to see those little shitheads talk to her like that. I'd have slapped the shit out of them if I were there. Gotta wonder where the bus driver was and why he didnt intervene.

[Marta]

Being an immigrant= getting the "slipper" (which had the ability to curve and even catch you when you ran behind a corner), getting the "broom", getting the backhand, getting good old spanked.

My mom didnt believe in grounding or time-outs. Nuh uhhhh, and yes it worked. But thats not because I got hit instead of getting time-out or getting privledges taken away, it worked because consistently I was punsihed for doing wrong. CONSISTENTLY. It doesnt matter what kind of punsihment you invoke (unless it isnt flat out abuse) As long as its proportional, and pretty instant, if you really work to parent your children, they will know how to conduct themselves accordingly, except for a few mistakes that are inevitable.

[MarkWB]

We aren't trying to be mean to you so please don't play the victim card on us. Its just that you should really think about some of the things you say on this forum. I was never on your case before but reading more of your posts lately, most of them sound like ramblings of a kids with limited experience in life. Again, I am not out to attack you personally and you could be a well educated and classy individual in real life.

I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what I was saying, because I didn't think you guys were "trying to be mean," nor was I playing the victim card. I'm saying if it's that easy to get people to donate you a quarter million, I'd be happy to be victimized on video. I'll even let the mods get a couple good free shots on me!:chuckle

[aZuMi]

Come meet some of the people I know got beat senseless when they were kids and teens and they'll tell you themselves...I once watched the mother of a 19 year old chase him with a shoe and throw it at his head. He just recently finished a two year sentence for stabbing someone. I wonder where he learned that behavior?

Oh, and in case you wan't some actual statistics, go open a child psychology text and read why modern psychologists (who now have clients who were kids in the 60s-80s) say beating your kids does more harm than good.

Let me reiterate what I mentioned earlier:

"Getting beaten or hit by your parents isn't abusive. It's old fashioned discipline and it's a form of parents' love. Happened to most of us, lol. "

I don't think alot of us who got beaten as a kid stabbed someone. We may be into cars, but we turned out well. Being in the industry you're in - it's really hard to say what the true stats are. For you, it may be 70-90% of people who got beaten up as a kid are now in prison.

But for us here in the forum, I think it's fair to say that I wasn't the only one beaten as a kid and I turned out to be disciplined. Now if you include that in your stats, it changes alot in your percentages. So, don't be biased just because you're in that industry. Beating your child through discipline isn't an act of hate, but otherwise.

[mazdabetty]

The fact people are donating money to this woman is seriously a joke. Don't get me wrong, I feel bad for her, but if I'm donating cash to a charity it better be getting a homeless person off the street, or keeping a child with cancer alive, or something of real value. Making her richer isn't going to stop people from making fat jokes or commenting on her sons suicide. It's nice to see people care about this, but it'd be even nicer to see people caring about more widespread problems.

Just because people made a small contribution doesn't mean it will stop them from making other donations. It doesn't mean I won't make the same contribution towards the humane society again this year, and it certainly doesn't mean I've blown off donating towards cancer research ever again! I think this woman had some good karma coming to her, I'm happy for her.

[n00bMeiSter]

And RedRaptor, really? You're going to beat some sense into your abusive child? Next he'll be out "giving old fashion lessons" to others, just like his old man.

Clearly you were born after 1989. Anyone who was born before the 90's knows just how well a good ol' beating from your father's belt was, or your mother's slipper or a wooden spoon.
I don't condone physically abusing your child, but I do know how well a good spanking works. The reason we can't do it anymore is because of the people who took it too far and just beat the shit out of their kids for whatever reason. A proper parenting class back in the day taught you how to properly discipline your child without being abusive.




I got beat, it was effective :)

+1




If I told you I'd been, would your view change? No, so that's irrelevant. I also hate reality shows. I also happen to work in social services, and spent over a year of that time working with...you guessed it...at risk high school aged youth.

Maybe it's you who has no idea what they're talking about? Are you a parent? Are you an at risk youth? Are you a bus driver?! NO! The only thing you have to offer this thread is the biased opinion of someone who's bitter that they got beat by their parents and some kids don't. Go ahead and tell me you've never done anything wrong in your life, and I'll point you out a very confused young man.

We're not bitter about our parents spanking us! You're the only person here who is pissed at the world because you got spanked because you were an insolent f*ck.
If I got smacked, I knew damn well I did something I shouldn't have, and learned not to do it again. Of course you'd be angry at first, but then you'd realize that you deserved it and got over it.

[MarkWB]

by arguing on the Internet with Mark Winning Blue.

We all have nothing better to do, that's why we're arguing in the first place. And WB are my last initials, my car is silver, but that made me laugh man ahaha (a friendly laugh nonetheless)

And I'm really not passing "judgement," I interpreted your comments as bitter. Nobody's right all the time. :P

[fywdyl]

Let me reiterate what I mentioned earlier:

"Getting beaten or hit by your parents isn't abusive. It's old fashioned discipline and it's a form of parents' love. Happened to most of us, lol. "

I don't think alot of us who got beaten as a kid stabbed someone. We may be into cars, but we turned out well. Being in the industry you're in - it's really hard to say what the true stats are. For you, it may be 70-90% of people who got beaten up as a kid are now in prison.

But for us here in the forum, I think it's fair to say that I wasn't the only one beaten as a kid and I turned out to be disciplined. Now if you include that in your stats, it changes alot in your percentages. So, don't be biased just because you're in that industry. Beating your child through discipline isn't an act of hate, but otherwise.

Hi-five Gian! Well said.

[Elusivellama]

Hah. Where I come from... you didn't pull this sh*t or you get the 24" rattan cane to the ass.


In my ethnic culture (Chinese), we are taught to respect your elders.

Same. Timeouts and withholding of toys and sweets is all well and good, but I firmly believe you need a good old-fashioned beatin' sometimes, and only for truly exceptional circumstances where you cross the line. It's exactly like Ted Roosevelt said... speak softly but carry a big stick; you will go far.

[n00bMeiSter]

And I still can't believe you guys are shocked into sadness about this...YOU USE THE INTERNET. Jesus...have you never been on 4chan?!

4chan is just a breeding ground for this shit. It's the culmination of a complete lack of discipline and respect, and has stewed and multiplied soo much that people think it's okay to be a complete f*cking c*nt.

[MarkWB]

Too many people to quote...

n00b, I actually didn't get smacked for being insolent. Many of my friends did, some of them turned out ok, some turned out worse than I did. As Marta mentioned, it's not wether or not you beat your kids, but whether or not you discipline them consistently. And please, don't attribute my attitude to the way I was raised, I can assure you that the types of work I do and my experiences in life are much more to blame for that than my mom not beating me. Also realized, I'm hardly pissed, lmao, I'm getting paid to be in this argument.

Other people: BEATING YOUR KIDS IS NOT ILLEGAL. You can still spank/rear your children, it just can't get to the point where the child is bruised or people are calling the cops because of the screaming. Any of you could open handedly smack your child as you want to, I'm just saying it's not going to do any more for them than if you'd taken away their iPod. What makes you think that making the consequences physical is going to convince your child they shouldn't do wrong? What if it just convinces them they need to find a better way to do it, and fast, because they don't want to be beat again? It just makes you your childs enemy, and makes you seem closed minded and unreasonable, which only encourages your child to lie and be deceitful to you to avoid punishment. This is the start of a pattern of thoughts and behaviors associated with sociopaths, aka repeat offenders.

And to those who said I'm being biased due to my line of work, I'm not saying that ALL kids that get beat go to jail, I'm saying the majority of people IN jail got beat. Interpret that how you want.

[turtle]

4chan is just a breeding ground for this shit. It's the culmination of a complete lack of discipline and respect, and has stewed and multiplied soo much that people think it's okay to be a complete f*cking c*nt.

+1 4chan is the worst.

I got hit as a child only a few times, the rest of the time only the THREAT of being hit was enough to make me think twice about doing stupid shit. That's the main reason behind physical discipline IMO, fear is a powerful motivator.

[MarkWB]

There's a difference between beating your kids out of frustration and disciplining them.

BTW, you just posted another skewed statistic... go open up a statistic textbook and learn about stats before making claims.

Ok, go open a copy of the DSM and see what causes most violent criminals to be violent. Read up on why repeat offenders repeatedly offend. Take a look at the stats instead of criticizing my offhand comments and saying I'm trying to quote exact stats when I'm obviously not.

And how would you feel about beating your kids if your loved one was the one who got stabbed by mr. shoe in the head?

[n00bMeiSter]

Too many people to quote...

n00b, I actually didn't get smacked for being insolent. Many of my friends did, some of them turned out ok, some turned out worse than I did. As Marta mentioned, it's not wether or not you beat your kids, but whether or not you discipline them consistently. And please, don't attribute my attitude to the way I was raised, I can assure you that the types of work I do and my experiences in life are much more to blame for that than my mom not beating me. Also realized, I'm hardly pissed, lmao, I'm getting paid to be in this argument.

Other people: BEATING YOUR KIDS IS NOT ILLEGAL. You can still spank/rear your children, it just can't get to the point where the child is bruised or people are calling the cops because of the screaming. Any of you could open handedly smack your child as you want to, I'm just saying it's not going to do any more for them than if you'd taken away their iPod. What makes you think that making the consequences physical is going to convince your child they shouldn't do wrong? What if it just convinces them they need to find a better way to do it, and fast, because they don't want to be beat again? It just makes you your childs enemy, and makes you seem closed minded and unreasonable, which only encourages your child to lie and be deceitful to you to avoid punishment. This is the start of a pattern of thoughts and behaviors associated with sociopaths, aka repeat offenders.

And to those who said I'm being biased due to my line of work, I'm not saying that ALL kids that get beat go to jail, I'm saying the majority of people IN jail got beat. Interpret that how you want.


While on paper physical discipline is legal, in reality, it really isn't. All it takes is for your child to say you hit them to child services and they take your kids away. A lady in our neighbourhood who never once hit her child had her two boys taken away because her insolent 15y/o daughter called child services and said she was being beaten. All of this because the daughter wasn't allowed to go to a party (one where we all knew full well there would be alcohol and drugs present). The problem is that our system is broken. They say it's supposed to protect both the children and the parents but it doesn't. They don't listen to anything the parents have to say, they rarely listen to the entirety of the parent's side. The main assumption is that if a child is making the phone call, it has to be true, because "why would a child lie?".


Right, so you've taken a skewed sample for your statistic. Now go and look at the sheer number of people who are NOT in jail that got beat, and you'll see just how many people in this world got beat, and only a small percentage of them turn out ****ed up, but mostly that's because there's something else with their neurological make up, and the way they were raised along with the environment around them, that ended up with them the way they are.

[aZuMi]

Ok, go open a copy of the DSM and see what causes most violent criminals to be violent. Read up on why repeat offenders repeatedly offend. Take a look at the stats instead of criticizing my offhand comments and saying I'm trying to quote exact stats when I'm obviously not.

And how would you feel about beating your kids if your loved one was the one who got stabbed by mr. shoe in the head? Azumi...Don't want to believe me? That's fine, you're just ensuring your tax dollars will keep paying part of my salary.

I lived in that area throughout highschool. I know there's shit that goes on there, but how dare you bring that up in the public forum. So what's your point in all this?

[FoXy]

Ok, go open a copy of the DSM and see what causes most violent criminals to be violent. Read up on why repeat offenders repeatedly offend. Take a look at the stats instead of criticizing my offhand comments and saying I'm trying to quote exact stats when I'm obviously not.

And how would you feel about beating your kids if your loved one was the one who got stabbed by mr. shoe in the head?

OMG... I stopped reading... You talk WAY too ****ing much. :banhim

I think everyone else here agrees... :bang

[chan7]

^ +1 Azumi

MarkWb, not cool to bring in other people's personal lives on a public forum for some explanation. Honestly, keep that shit off the forum.

[FoXy]

Lesson of the day... discipline your children... in an appropriate fashion. Pay attention to them, be involved in their lives, be a positive infulence, and always know what they're doing.

Do you honestly think these kids act like angels at home? Doubtful, but I am sure their parents are too busy NOT paying any attention to them and have no idea what the hell is going on in their lives. This is where kids fall thru the cracks, when their parents detach and not involve themselves at all in their kids lives, their well being, and ignore the extremely important role they play in forming those children into adults.

[MarkWB]

Wow, take it easy people. I'm pretty sure he can speak for himself...and he did, which is why I removed that part of my post.

[cwp_sedan]

Wow, take it easy people. I'm pretty sure he can speak for himself...and he did, which is why I removed that part of my post.

Keep personal references about others locations and personal information to yourself. Next time you post anything similar without their permission you will be banned. That's my final warning.








This thread has gone way beyond the original topic. Bring it back or I'm locking it.

[Slade]

You need to teach your kids "respect" which none seem to have these days, how you teach it is up to you and your partner.

My mom and dad taught me respect, and your damn right that I will teach it to my kids the same way.

@MarkWB , so when YOU are dragged into the principles office, after being called at work and having to leave, your not going to discipline your child? Your just going to tell them its ok, you did the right thing? You know what I got when my mom got called into the principles office? I good meal of soap when I got home,the "im going to tell your dad" line, and I got the pleasure of cleaning the house for a week. But you wouldn't do that to your kids it sounds like, instead you would take the home to play some XBox and order a pizza and praise them for what they did.

[mazdabetty]

I'm amazed no one posted this yet...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pAHEcYnaAE

[n00bMeiSter]

^ hahahaha, you're right, surprising no one has posted it yet lol

[Marta]

I'm amazed no one posted this yet...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pAHEcYnaAE

this was an amazing skit. So true hahaha

[PearlM3]

Ok, go open a copy of the DSM and see what causes most violent criminals to be violent. Read up on why repeat offenders repeatedly offend. Take a look at the stats instead of criticizing my offhand comments and saying I'm trying to quote exact stats when I'm obviously not.

And how would you feel about beating your kids if your loved one was the one who got stabbed by mr. shoe in the head?

Your stats are so screwed up and just the fact that you brought up the dsm which is a joke. They can't even release a new edition because most of it is crap, and no one can agree on any of it. Shows you don't know what your talking about. Anyways these kids need a harsh disciplining, and I think it's great that this lady is getting so much support

[Marta]

Your stats are so screwed up and just the fact that you brought up the dsm which is a joke. They can't even release a new edition because most of it is crap, and no one can agree on any of it. Shows you don't know what your talking about. Anyways these kids need a harsh disciplining, and I think it's great that this lady is getting so much support

yes...the manual that most juries, judges, doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, medical experts continue to use (and have used for quite some time) to diagnose various mental illnesses and mental states is mostly crap...:bang

EDIT: this is most def sarcastic as ****

[PearlM3]

yes...the manual that most juries, judges, doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, medical experts continue to use (and have used for quite some time) to diagnose various mental illnesses and mental states is mostly crap...:bang

EDIT: this is most def sarcastic as ****

Want to know why the DSM V hasn't been released, and why DSM IV has not been updated in 12 years....because the majority is subjective, and no one can agree on anything. It is used in my opinion not to diagnose, but rather label (and I do work in the mental health field, so i'm not just talking off the cuff).

[mazdaspeedemon3]

OMG... I stopped reading... You talk WAY too ****ing much. :banhim

I think everyone else here agrees... :bang

++++++++++1111111 to this..... its tiring as fu*k reading this.... pretty much why i dont open these posts lol

[loki]

Too much epicness to read on my bb

[Marta]

Want to know why the DSM V hasn't been released, and why DSM IV has not been updated in 12 years....because the majority is subjective, and no one can agree on anything. It is used in my opinion not to diagnose, but rather label (and I do work in the mental health field, so i'm not just talking off the cuff).

so would you say that anything in the mental health field that cannot be 100% scientifically explained (most things) are crap?
Because last time I checked, no one is claiming the DSM is objective, completely accurate, complete in any way, or precise everytime. Its a comprehensive guide, that tries to explain many phenomena that science quite cant (involving the human brain and human rationale) as best as it can, as collected through ages, throughout the world, by thousands of health committes and health specialists. That DOES NOT make it crap.

And I have studied extensively in the mental health field and how it relates to crime, so im not talking off the cuff either.

[PearlM3]

so would you say that anything in the mental health field that cannot be 100% scientifically explained (most things) are crap?
Because last time I checked, no one is claiming the DSM is objective, completely accurate, complete in any way, or precise everytime. Its a comprehensive guide, that tries to explain many phenomena that science quite cant (involving the human brain and human rationale) as best as it can, as collected through ages, throughout the world, by thousands of health committes and health specialists. That DOES NOT make it crap.

And I have studied extensively in the mental health field and how it relates to crime, so im not talking off the cuff either.

I have seen so much damage done to individuals that are falsely labelled by a doctor who has used the DSM to "diagnose" them that it's not even funny. In regards to mental health in relation to crime, well I have very little experience. My point was that someone who is stating all these false stats and whatnot, should not be referring to the DSM as a place to get solid facts from. The DSM is widely used because people have no choice but use it, if you want to be diagnosed you have to go through that one book. I call it crap because it is so widely subjective that the majority of us could easily be diagnosed with a either a developmental delay or a mental health issue by a crack psychiatrist in 2 minutes. This is why it is quite easy for criminals to hide behind false diagnosis when they are claiming insanity.

[MarkWB]

If all my stats are screwed up, where's all the evidence I'm wrong? I don't see anyone bringing in any more information than I have, yet so many people are taking the high ground. Oh wait, because statistics (just like the info in the DSM apparently) can be subjective. I'm not going to drag this further off topic, but before anyone goes smacking up their kids, take some time to read up on the potential consequences, and ask a couple of child, and prison, psychologists. While many of you obviously don't think much of my comments, if anyone is interested in talking with me on the subject feel free to PM me.

And that Russel Peters skit gets me every time, LOL.

[Marta]

I have seen so much damage done to individuals that are falsely labelled by a doctor who has used the DSM to "diagnose" them that it's not even funny. In regards to mental health in relation to crime, well I have very little experience. My point was that someone who is stating all these false stats and whatnot, should not be referring to the DSM as a place to get solid facts from. The DSM is widely used because people have no choice but use it, if you want to be diagnosed you have to go through that one book. I call it crap because it is so widely subjective that the majority of us could easily be diagnosed with a either a developmental delay or a mental health issue by a crack psychiatrist in 2 minutes. This is why it is quite easy for criminals to hide behind false diagnosis when they are claiming insanity.

Nothing personal, but there is so much FAIL in what you're trying to say in the above post, that Im just going to leave it at that.

[MistaChin]

f*** yo couch.

That is all.

[MarkWB]

In regards to mental health in relation to crime, well I have very little experience.
The DSM is widely used because people have no choice but use it

1) So then...?
2) What else was I going to use then, magic? Ass facts? A thread on the differences between short ram intakes and cold air intakes?

You get my point, lol, I'm not trying to come up here and say if you beat your child you'll doom him/her to a life of drugs and prison, but I am saying that, as far as what we know thus far tells us, beating your kids does NOT improve their likelihood to grow up "normal," and many people in prison attribute a lot of their issues to being abused at home and/or school as a child. What one does with that information in their head is, subjective, like the information itself. The way two professionals apply that is a part of their personal practice, right?

[PearlM3]

I meant they have no choice but legally use it to prove a diagnosis. Anyways your mentioning the DSM sparked something for me and this thread has nothing to do with the DSM so I will respectfully bow out.

[cwp_sedan]

f*** yo couch.

That is all.

...and with that note! :lock