Got a ticket...

[KVS17]

Hey guys,

I went to Toronto, and, I accidentally made a right turn on Yonge st, from queen, and was pulled over. Apparently, there was a no left or right turn sign, and I didn't see it. I apologized to the officer and told him, we're from Milton and not to familiar with Toronto and that I did not see the sign. He took my info and went back to his car. We waited for almost 20 minutes because it started to rain like crazy. He finally came back and handed me a damn ticket for $110. Prior to this, I've never ONCE been pulled over, given a ticket, been in an accident or ANYTHING. My record is more spotless than Mr. Clean's bald head! Lol

Do you guys think, if i fight this ticket it can get thrown out, or even reduced by a lot? like damn, $110 for making a mistake, and I couldnt even get off with a warning?

Thanks,

KVS

[SKYMP3]

Sorry to hear your bad day, but your past driving record or been in accident or not doesn't give a difference to receive a no turn ticket. New to the places is no an excuse neither.
Is only a no turn ticket, dont take it THAT seriously, it is far better than a speeding ticket or an accident.

You can try to fight it and the prosecutor may reduce the charge or you can take a chance to go to the trial if you think it worth your time for it off.
Good Luck.

[DM7]

Pay the ticket. Check out the street view on google maps, there are 8 no left/right turn signs in that one intersection. In every direction that you enter that intersection there are 2 of those signs facing you mounted right beside each traffic light. That is more than enough fair warning that you can not make a turn in that intersection.

These signs are in that intersection for the safety of pedestrians as it is a very busy and crowded area of the city.

This is the process for fighting parking tickets in the city. It may be different for moving infractions:
If you choose to fight this ticket you will have to make another trip to downtown Toronto on a weekday. Pay for flat rate parking (14-20$) to park your car somewhere. Go to the court house and wait for 3 or 4 hours and they may not even do anything for you.

[loki]

Not being from the area is no excuse for not obeying a traffic sign

Were you not paying attention? That's what I would ask you if I was the prosecutor. Its like saying I didn't see that stop sign because I don't live in this neighbourhood

Hope it wasn't an engagement ring or something important becuase if I was your gf and a little thing like this soured your mood I'd be pissed.

But you sure showed that cop who's boss by turning around and driving straight back to Milton!!! LOL

Buddy pay the ****ing ticket and go get your girl her ring man, geez.

[KVS17]

Thanks for the advice regarding the ticket, please dont give advice about my relationship or a ring where it doesnt need it.


Not being from the area is no excuse for not obeying a traffic sign

Were you not paying attention? That's what I would ask you if I was the prosecutor. Its like saying I didn't see that stop sign because I don't live in this neighbourhood

Hope it wasn't an engagement ring or something important becuase if I was your gf and a little thing like this soured your mood I'd be pissed.

But you sure showed that cop who's boss by turning around and driving straight back to Milton!!! LOL

Buddy pay the ****ing ticket and go get your girl her ring man, geez.

[pearl3]

I feel u man. Sorry the hear that ur on the same boat with me.
I didn't even make a mistake and they still wanna dig $110 out of my pocket. I felt like I got robber:(

[KVS17]

^ lol i just saw your thread... at least quotas are getting filled!

[loki]

Thanks for the advice regarding the ticket, please dont give advice about my relationship or a ring where it doesnt need it.

Wasn't giving you advice, and you were the one who brought it up in your post.

You could simply have said we were in Toronto, but instead you gave a reason for being in Toronto.

Enjoy!

[KVS17]

Right, and I asked members what they think could happen with the ticket, not what i should do about the ring. thanks anyway.


Wasn't giving you advice, and you were the one who brought it up in your post.

You could simply have said we were in Toronto, but instead you gave a reason for being in Toronto.

Enjoy!

[jonjon72]

Had the same situation happen last year and you have two choices. Pay the $110 or go to court. If you choose to go to court, request for disclosure on your case. If they don't send you anything, your case will most likely be dismissed. The only cost to you should be parking, gas and time off if you are paid on an hourly basis. Good luck and congrats on the engagement.

[KVS17]

Guess I should have looking out for those signs. I'm not used to streets that say you cant turn left or right at the same time lol. thanks.


Pay the ticket. Check out the street view on google maps, there are 8 no left/right turn signs in that one intersection. In every direction that you enter that intersection there are 2 of those signs facing you mounted right beside each traffic light. That is more than enough fair warning that you can not make a turn in that intersection.

These signs are in that intersection for the safety of pedestrians as it is a very busy and crowded area of the city.

This is the process for fighting parking tickets in the city. It may be different for moving infractions:
If you choose to fight this ticket you will have to make another trip to downtown Toronto on a weekday. Pay for flat rate parking (14-20$) to park your car somewhere. Go to the court house and wait for 3 or 4 hours and they may not even do anything for you.

[MarkWB]

Take it to court...take every ticket to court. If you get a ticket for drinking in public and the cop personally took a picture of you chugging it down on the corner, take it to court. It doesn't matter if you're guilty or not, it's if they can prove it. And even if they can, they'll always offer you a deal to wrap up the case quickly. The cop might not even show up lol

[leungalv]

Sorry to hear your bad day, but your past driving record or been in accident or not doesn't give a difference to receive a no turn ticket. New to the places is no an excuse neither.


Sure it does ... two officers have told me, "you've been driving for 16 years with no tickets on your record ... let's not ruin it now, just slow down" The time I did get a ticket last week, the officer asked how many tickets I had on my record, I told him none ... he checked that info, came back and said I'll have to write you up for going 114, so it's just a $50 fine ... I was going 134km/h which would have been 4 points, $259. I said thank you and paid the ticket.

[leungalv]

If you're willing to travel to Toronto (how much is gas cost?), fight the ticket

1) request disclosure as jonjon72 said ... there's a letter and case law for doing that. Don't put your phone number on the request form, if you do, they'll likely call you to go pick it up. Thus, if they claim at the pretrial you didn't provide a number, your argument should be that there is the full address information on the letter you sent, plus they could have pulled it from your driving record blah blah. Basically, if they WANTED to get it to you they could have.

2) Show up for court ask the prosecutor if his / her witness is there (i.e. the officer), they have to answer this question, much of the time they like to play dumb about it though. If their witness is not there, ask them to dismiss the case. If the officer is there, see if you can get a plea agreement for a guilty plea.

[Egierda]

Trolling aside. That pic made me laugh haha
Troll - successful.


Let me reiterate my point a little differently.

If you admit to being in the wrong, then this is not an argument of principle, but rather an attempted evaluation of ticket cost/cost savings by going to court. All of the time you'd spend going to court and presumably the money you'd lose by taking a day off work will likely tally up to much more than the cost of the ticket.

[KVS17]

Thanks everyone for the tips, some useful info here. Leungalv, I might try what you and jonjon are saying, well see.

Thanks again.

[6strings]

If I were in your position I'd just pay the ticket and get around all the hassle of dealing with court dates and that jazz. But whichever decision you make, i wish you the best. Good luck.

[leungalv]

Thanks everyone for the tips, some useful info here. Leungalv, I might try what you and jonjon are saying, well see.

Thanks again.

If you need the request letter that I use, let me know, I can email it to you.

[aris]

I got a speeding ticket 2 weeks ago... You want to know what I did... I paid it. ... Also got another speeding ticket in January of this year you want to know what I did... I paid it

These stupid threads about gettin tickets are so ****ing stupid....

[aris]

Take it to court...take every ticket to court. If you get a ticket for drinking in public and the cop personally took a picture of you chugging it down on the corner, take it to court. It doesn't matter if you're guilty or not, it's if they can prove it. And even if they can, they'll always offer you a deal to wrap up the case quickly. The cop might not even show up lol
Cops will show up to court...They get paid to be their

[greaves82]

Its simple, if you have the time and can afford to take the time off work then fight it. If you can't afford it then pay it.

[iconicrocket]

It's a moving violation and will probably affect your insurance when renewing. You gotta decide whether it's worth your time and money to fight it versus how much it's going to cost you in insurance in the forseeable future.

[cSPEED]

I got a speeding ticket 2 weeks ago... You want to know what I did... I paid it. ... Also got another speeding ticket in January of this year you want to know what I did... I paid it

These stupid threads about gettin tickets are so ****ing stupid....

definitely don't do this.

Also, cops not showing up in court is pretty much history now.. they get paid for it.

You should always fight the ticket if you could avoid taking off work or if it's otherwise worth it. But is $110 worth taking a day off work? If you make a little over minimum wage it wouldn't be worth it.

[silverstarmazda]

i got a ticket 7 months ago for a light violation....i still havnt gotten my court date yet... i plan on showing up, tell and show them that my lights are fixed. they would probably drop mine. but you have a traffic violation and they will probably convict you for it. its your job to make them work for it. get them to make you a deal to drop the fine lower. remember, your going to be in toronto court. how many people live here and go to court everyday? they want to get through all these tickets as fast as possible.

[FLIPDADY]

Always fight the ticket no matter what it is. Trust me I learned the hard way, now I'm paying higher insurance. If you can get it reduced or points removed it will be worth it.

[bluemazda3]

I got pulled over for turning right on a red light.. lucky for me the cop was asian and I had a good looking bata in the passenger seat.. he let me go with a warning..

[zoomahh]

acronymingly (not a word....I know...but you know what I mean) disabled....... WTF is a bata....I know there's a shoe store named bata... but that's it :P

[Cab0oze]

I got pulled over doing a left turn at a 4 way stop onto a residential street that I lived on. I did this out of habit because I only go that direction on weekends..... however this particular day it was during the week and apparently I made the mistake of doing it between 4-6, and this was not alllowed monday, wednesday or friday. That is a lot of information to read and process in the 2 seconds you're stopped. Hell, I didnt even look at the sign, it was partially hidden behind a tree on the other side of the intersection and it was snowing.

The cop that gave me the ticket was a total douche. I've NEVER had a ticket before and this is what he felt it was necessary to slap me with:

350$ ticket. I went to fight it because really it is BS just based on the principal that a) there is no traffic there b) its a 4 way stop so nobody is being put in danger c) i live on the #*$(@ street d) the sign shouldn't even be there e) sign wasn't very visible etc etc. I was just so pissed in general. I made the mistake of fighting it in QC court. Needless to say, I lost and they tacked something like an 80$ court fine onto my already ridiculously expensive ticket.

I realize its a diff province, and ppl in ON are way nicer than QC, but if I had zero luck fighting that, you pretty much stand no chance.

[D4deez]

Give this a read before you make up your mind: http://ticketcombat.com/

[MarkWB]

Cops do get paid to come to court, but you also have to remember they hand out a lot of tickets every month and if they want to take overtime to show up tto court for every ticket they write they'll be in court anytime they're not at work. Cops are people to, and things happen, I've had a cop not show for me. Also, what if you file your ticket and by the time you get your court date and disclosure its been over a year since the offence? You can file to have your case dismissed for unconstitutional delay. Some people will tell you to pay everything and accept responsibility and some other bs. Screw all that noise, at the very least you'll get out of your trial with either a no points ticket, a reduced fine, a ticket reduction (aka change the name of your ticket on your abstract) or some combonation of the above. Any of this saves you money in the long term, and like I said, you might get off scott free.

[Turok]

I'd fight it and being from Milton and all I think you would have a good chance at getting it thrown out, at worse case they would reduce it. Cop was probably having a slow day.

[n00bMeiSter]

I'd fight it and being from Milton and all I think you would have a good chance at getting it thrown out, at worse case they would reduce it. Cop was probably having a slow day.

And why would he have a good chance of it being thrown out being from Milton?
The officer was not having a slow day. There is a blatantly obvious sign NEXT to the green light stating no left or right turn from Yonge to Queen. Not being from the area is no excuse for not paying attention to the road and signs. Especially when they are right next to the traffic lights.

[Turok]

Because he's from out of town.. a friend of mine who lives in Barrie came to Toronto (downtown) last summer and he made a similar mistake a received a ticket. When he went to court argued his case and had mentioned he wasn't from the area and the judge ended up tossing the ticket.

[zzz3]

Fight your ticket.

Insurance doesnt give a shit about demerit points or whether you made right turn were not permitted, 40 or 10 over speed limit, etc., they only care about convictions (moving violations).

Take a day off, go to the clerk at traffic court and request a trial. Then submit a request for disclosure and see what happens. Your court date may not be set for another year or so; insufficient or no disclosure maybe provided - all these are grounds for dismissal and are common occurrences.

In the worst case scenario, you get your disclosure as requested and a court date that doesn't exceed the precedent of 10 months. However you still have the opportunity to plead guilty, perhaps to a lesser fine (not that it will make a difference) when everyone has to speak to the prosecutor before the judge enters. That's when you give in.

Check out ticketcombat as well as the ticket thread on rfd:
http://forums.redflagdeals.com/ask-me-anything-about-fighting-your-traffic-ticket-speeding-parking-etc-945928/

[mazdabetty]

Wow. That seems like a lot of work...


If everything in disclosure looks satisfactory, then you will need to spend some time preparing a defence to your charge. If you need assistance here, post a reply in this thread.

If you're clearly guilty, you'd have to be a GREAT talker to get through that without shitting your pants hahahha... lord knows I would probably break down.

[MarkWB]

Wow. That seems like a lot of work...



If you're clearly guilty, you'd have to be a GREAT talker to get through that without shitting your pants hahahha... lord knows I would probably break down.

There's no penalty for going to court and trying to make a deal lol every time I've got a ticket the cop has told me to take it to trial. Also, insurance companies don't give a crap about points, yes, but do you want them? If you get 4 points the next time you get a similar ticket you could have your license up for review/suspension. Also, insurance companies will raise your insurance for more serious offences. Speeding 29 or less over the limit is oftern considered a minor offence, along with your no turn ticket. 30 over tickets and the like are more serious, and will bring your rates up more. Why is this important? Getting the name of tickets changed matters to your insurance company. Your abstract doesn't disclose what happened, so the name on file for the ticket you got is all the info they have on the offence. Just take your ticket to court, and if you're confused, ask for help.

[aris]

There's no penalty for going to court and trying to make a deal lol every time I've got a ticket the cop has told me to take it to trial. Also, insurance companies don't give a crap about points, yes, but do you want them? If you get 4 points the next time you get a similar ticket you could have your license up for review/suspension. Also, insurance companies will raise your insurance for more serious offences. Speeding 29 or less over the limit is oftern considered a minor offence, along with your no turn ticket. 30 over tickets and the like are more serious, and will bring your rates up more. Why is this important? Getting the name of tickets changed matters to your insurance company. Your abstract doesn't disclose what happened, so the name on file for the ticket you got is all the info they have on the offence. Just take your ticket to court, and if you're confused, ask for help.

Any speeding ticket under 49 km is considered minor... Anything over tha is major.

[leungalv]

Take a day off, go to the clerk at traffic court and request a trial. Then submit a request for disclosure and see what happens. Your court date may not be set for another year or so; insufficient or no disclosure maybe provided - all these are grounds for dismissal and are common occurrences.

In the worst case scenario, you get your disclosure as requested and a court date that doesn't exceed the precedent of 10 months. However you still have the opportunity to plead guilty, perhaps to a lesser fine (not that it will make a difference) when everyone has to speak to the prosecutor before the judge enters. That's when you give in.


The precedent is not 10 months ...

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?55986-HTA-144-(18)&p=970864&viewfull=1#post970864

[silverstarmazda]

just ask for a court date. by the time you get the date youll think of an excuse. trust me, i was freaking out wen i got my first ticket.. and now im still waiting for the court date and i cant wait till it comes so i can get it over with. hell, i hope it wont come at all so itll get tossed.

[MarkWB]

Any speeding ticket under 49 km is considered minor... Anything over tha is major.

Law says 29. Anything over that earns you 4 points. Some companies will forgive your first speeding ticket if its under 29, and even more likely if its under 20. If you can get just "speeding" listed, you're even better off. This means you get to omit or lie about the speed you were going. Off topic since this is about a no turn ticket, but it might help him down the road lol OP I encourage you to take your fine to court and make your decisions in the meantime. You can even choose to walk into court and plead guilty and apologize for the wasted court time...I've done this for a beer in the park and got my fine cut in half.

[aris]

Law says 29. Anything over that earns you 4 points. Some companies will forgive your first speeding ticket if its under 29, and even more likely if its under 20. If you can get just "speeding" listed, you're even better off. This means you get to omit or lie about the speed you were going. Off topic since this is about a no turn ticket, but it might help him down the road lol OP I encourage you to take your fine to court and make your decisions in the meantime. You can even choose to walk into court and plead guilty and apologize for the wasted court time...I've done this for a beer in the park and got my fine cut in half.


Ive had speeding ticket for 43 km over and my insurance company told me it's minor... I got a friend who works for any insurance company now and I was talking to her about it and she also said its considered minor

[MarkWB]

Ive had speeding ticket for 43 km over and my insurance company told me it's minor... I got a friend who works for any insurance company now and I was talking to her about it and she also said its considered minor

Your company and her company are individual entities that will work with the laws as they choose. Some other companies are not as lenient, it all depends. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm quoting the law.

[cSPEED]

They are "minor" offences with major consequences.

I had 1 speeding ticket which actually stuck. It was 5 over and $19 like 2 years ago. My insurance went up 5$/month when it got re-evaluated.

[Nick]

as FLIPDADY said, always fight the ticket, who wants it on their abstract for the next 3-6 years. don't take anything here personally, all enforcers of the law go by ignorance of the law is no excuse. no biggie, ppl make mistakes thats it, make the date and fight it, gl

[silverstarmazda]

I got pulled over for turning right on a red light.. lucky for me the cop was asian and I had a good looking bata in the passenger seat.. he let me go with a warning..

sry but bata = big ass titted asian?

[krimsalt]

You apologized on the street to the cop, and that's now recorded. So you're not going to get it dropped or fought in court because you admitted to it already. Saying "Im not from the area" makes the cop think you aren't confident driving. Didn't see the sign could have been didn't see the pedestrian....

Pay it or take it to court with "guilty but explanation"

[cSPEED]

You apologized on the street to the cop, and that's now recorded. So you're not going to get it dropped or fought in court because you admitted to it already. Saying "Im not from the area" makes the cop think you aren't confident driving. Didn't see the sign could have been didn't see the pedestrian....

Pay it or take it to court with "guilty but explanation"

Don't think this matters as much as you think. I have never heard of this playing a role in a traffic case and I Would think most people admit to it on the spot and fight it in court year later.

[vinnierap]

Always plead "NOT Guilty". If you plea guilty with explanation they can only reduce the ticket not quash it. Always fight the ticket even if you are 100% guilty. Dont just pay it. Even if it is only $110, when you get convicted of it your rates will go up and then you will be paying more than that for the next 3 years.

[alhope34]

I got pulled over doing a left turn at a 4 way stop onto a residential street that I lived on. I did this out of habit because I only go that direction on weekends..... however this particular day it was during the week and apparently I made the mistake of doing it between 4-6, and this was not alllowed monday, wednesday or friday. That is a lot of information to read and process in the 2 seconds you're stopped. Hell, I didnt even look at the sign, it was partially hidden behind a tree on the other side of the intersection and it was snowing.

The cop that gave me the ticket was a total douche. I've NEVER had a ticket before and this is what he felt it was necessary to slap me with:

350$ ticket. I went to fight it because really it is BS just based on the principal that a) there is no traffic there b) its a 4 way stop so nobody is being put in danger c) i live on the #*$(@ street d) the sign shouldn't even be there e) sign wasn't very visible etc etc. I was just so pissed in general. I made the mistake of fighting it in QC court. Needless to say, I lost and they tacked something like an 80$ court fine onto my already ridiculously expensive ticket.

I realize its a diff province, and ppl in ON are way nicer than QC, but if I had zero luck fighting that, you pretty much stand no chance.

Lol, Montreal signs for especially parking are so confusing, most of them have a full paragraph of French information in point 9 font. Most small streets you can't park in certain places for ONE HOUR of each week for street sweeping (I'm guessing), but I have never seen the sweeper pass once in my girlfriend's area in the 4 years she has lived there. Needless to say, I have 3 $52 tickets for parking there that will never be paid.

[MarkWB]

You apologized on the street to the cop, and that's now recorded. So you're not going to get it dropped or fought in court because you admitted to it already. Saying "Im not from the area" makes the cop think you aren't confident driving. Didn't see the sign could have been didn't see the pedestrian....

Pay it or take it to court with "guilty but explanation"

Recorded by what? Unless he was wearing a dvcam, which would have been super obvious, then the only "recording" of what you said is what he writes in his notebook. COPS LIE, judges know this, so when it comes down to his word against yours the judge will side with you. The cop getting his story together and properly documenting evidence is his responsibility, not yours. Unless HE can prove you admitted guilt to him, what you said to him doesn't matter.

And in criminal court nothing you say before you are informed of your rights can be used in court. Not sure how this applies here, anyone know if there's a statute on this?

And PS: "guilty with an explanation" is just pleading guilty and begging for mercy...mercy that won't be given to you. Take every single ticket you get to trial no matter what. I don't care if the cop got you on the radar and you bust out crying and hugged his leg on video begging for forgiveness. What if he quits, what if he gets fired, what if he dies, what if in the 9 months between receiving your ticket and your court date his wife gets pregnant and gives birth that day, what if he just has something better to do (ie anything else that pays, or anything thats more fun than court if hes happy with his bank balance) and decides not to show up for your minor ticket, what if he has to appear in court for another, more serious ticket/crime and cannot be at your trial...getting the point? You could get off entirely before even having your case heard for so many reasons, PLUS, if he does show up, you automatically get the deal you may have gotten post-tearful begging with option 2 offered to you after a few words with the prosecutor. Swallow your productive-member-of-society pride, let out those balls, and go to court, it WILL save you money, and you might just get away with what you did and not have to face the consequences. Plus, taking your bs tickets to court floods the system and forces them to offer us better deals and keeps cops from being able to appear to court for low level speeding tickets and no turn tickets and the like. DO US A PUBLIC SERVICE, PLEASE!

Now, one more time for the rest of the class...

TAKE EVERY SINGLE M*********ING TICKET YOU GET TO COURT, NO MATTER WHAT!!!

[alhope34]

Recorded by what?

Last time I was pulled over by a Toronto cop, she told me that all TPS officers are wired with mics recording constantly on their bodies.

[Cab0oze]

Lol, Montreal signs for especially parking are so confusing, most of them have a full paragraph of French information in point 9 font. Most small streets you can't park in certain places for ONE HOUR of each week for street sweeping (I'm guessing), but I have never seen the sweeper pass once in my girlfriend's area in the 4 years she has lived there. Needless to say, I have 3 $52 tickets for parking there that will never be paid.
lmao I wish I could get away with that :P
Props to you, they're thieves. Its not like the money is used for fixing up the roads/city anyway.... :rolleyes

[alhope34]

Yea, I know. People who complain at all about Toronto roads have never driven the average Montreal road. Even some of their "fixed" areas are worse than the worst we have here.

[leungalv]

Recorded by what? Unless he was wearing a dvcam, which would have been super obvious, then the only "recording" of what you said is what he writes in his notebook. COPS LIE, judges know this, so when it comes down to his word against yours the judge will side with you. The cop getting his story together and properly documenting evidence is his responsibility, not yours. Unless HE can prove you admitted guilt to him, what you said to him doesn't matter.

And in criminal court nothing you say before you are informed of your rights can be used in court. Not sure how this applies here, anyone know if there's a statute on this?


Erm ... who is your authority for the first one?

Secondly, if you're in criminal court, it's because you've already been arrested. At the time of arrest you should have been read something similar to the Miranda rights ... more specifically:

- right to retain and instruct counsel without delay
- right to telephone any lawyer you wish
- right to free advice from Legal Aid lawyer
- suspect will be asked if he understands rights, if he wishes to call lawyer, will be searched

OTHER RIGHTS:
- right to know reasons for arrest
- remain silent under s. 7 and s. 11(c) of Charter
- have their case heard within reasonable time s. 11(b) of Charter

[cSPEED]

Erm ... who is your authority for the first one?

Secondly, if you're in criminal court, it's because you've already been arrested. At the time of arrest you should have been read something similar to the Miranda rights ... more specifically:

- right to retain and instruct counsel without delay
- right to telephone any lawyer you wish
- right to free advice from Legal Aid lawyer
- suspect will be asked if he understands rights, if he wishes to call lawyer, will be searched

OTHER RIGHTS:
- right to know reasons for arrest
- remain silent under s. 7 and s. 11(c) of Charter
- have their case heard within reasonable time s. 11(b) of Charter

Yeah man we've all seen law and order.. Nice miranda drop though lol

Of the 50+ times I've been pulled over or been in a vehicle that was pulled over, 2 of them the cops said "i am legally obligated to tell you this is being recorded" so I'm pretty sure you'd know if they're recording anything.

[Marta]

Yeah man we've all seen law and order.. Nice miranda drop though lol

Of the 50+ times I've been pulled over or been in a vehicle that was pulled over, 2 of them the cops said "i am legally obligated to tell you this is being recorded" so I'm pretty sure you'd know if they're recording anything.

i LOVE law and order :) lmao

[aris]

Yeah man we've all seen law and order.. Nice miranda drop though lol

Of the 50+ times I've been pulled over or been in a vehicle that was pulled over, 2 of them the cops said "i am legally obligated to tell you this is being recorded" so I'm pretty sure you'd know if they're recording anything.


I'm pretty sure he's not getting his info from law and order.... He's either a lawyer or works for one... So his info is legit

[Sappo569]

You realize this is one of the reasons our taxes are so high... we have to pay the cops to show up for everyone's piddly little tickets because they can't be assed to man up and pay.



Recorded by what? Unless he was wearing a dvcam, which would have been super obvious, then the only "recording" of what you said is what he writes in his notebook. COPS LIE, judges know this, so when it comes down to his word against yours the judge will side with you. The cop getting his story together and properly documenting evidence is his responsibility, not yours. Unless HE can prove you admitted guilt to him, what you said to him doesn't matter.

And in criminal court nothing you say before you are informed of your rights can be used in court. Not sure how this applies here, anyone know if there's a statute on this?

And PS: "guilty with an explanation" is just pleading guilty and begging for mercy...mercy that won't be given to you. Take every single ticket you get to trial no matter what. I don't care if the cop got you on the radar and you bust out crying and hugged his leg on video begging for forgiveness. What if he quits, what if he gets fired, what if he dies, what if in the 9 months between receiving your ticket and your court date his wife gets pregnant and gives birth that day, what if he just has something better to do (ie anything else that pays, or anything thats more fun than court if hes happy with his bank balance) and decides not to show up for your minor ticket, what if he has to appear in court for another, more serious ticket/crime and cannot be at your trial...getting the point? You could get off entirely before even having your case heard for so many reasons, PLUS, if he does show up, you automatically get the deal you may have gotten post-tearful begging with option 2 offered to you after a few words with the prosecutor. Swallow your productive-member-of-society pride, let out those balls, and go to court, it WILL save you money, and you might just get away with what you did and not have to face the consequences. Plus, taking your bs tickets to court floods the system and forces them to offer us better deals and keeps cops from being able to appear to court for low level speeding tickets and no turn tickets and the like. DO US A PUBLIC SERVICE, PLEASE!

Now, one more time for the rest of the class...

TAKE EVERY SINGLE M*********ING TICKET YOU GET TO COURT, NO MATTER WHAT!!!

[MarkWB]

Erm ... who is your authority for the first one?

Secondly, if you're in criminal court, it's because you've already been arrested. At the time of arrest you should have been read something similar to the Miranda rights ... more specifically:

- right to retain and instruct counsel without delay
- right to telephone any lawyer you wish
- right to free advice from Legal Aid lawyer
- suspect will be asked if he understands rights, if he wishes to call lawyer, will be searched

OTHER RIGHTS:
- right to know reasons for arrest
- remain silent under s. 7 and s. 11(c) of Charter
- have their case heard within reasonable time s. 11(b) of Charter

Well I know the Miranda rights, they're right here in my notebook. As for the first part, my authority is experience. I've never had a judge in any court take what a cop says solely at face value and have heard a judge tell a cop in the courtroom evidence is up to him. I was also trained to keep perfect notes and maintain evidence at my job (security) in case of any incidents. This is to ensure a conviction, so I'm working for the opposite side here and recommend that anyone at least point out inconsistencies in the cops notes/reports and what you say happened.

[MarkWB]

Yeah man we've all seen law and order.. Nice miranda drop though lol

Of the 50+ times I've been pulled over or been in a vehicle that was pulled over, 2 of them the cops said "i am legally obligated to tell you this is being recorded" so I'm pretty sure you'd know if they're recording anything.

YES! This is exactly right. I wear a dvcam at some of my jobs and its required that I inform anyone when I turn it on. Its also worn in a conspicuous place (on my shirt). A cop cannot record you for a bloody traffic offence and use it against you in court later without your knowledge. This applies to anyone with a recording device really, unless dealing with narcs and warrants.

[leungalv]

Well I know the Miranda rights, they're right here in my notebook. As for the first part, my authority is experience. I've never had a judge in any court take what a cop says solely at face value and have heard a judge tell a cop in the courtroom evidence is up to him. I was also trained to keep perfect notes and maintain evidence at my job (security) in case of any incidents. This is to ensure a conviction, so I'm working for the opposite side here and recommend that anyone at least point out inconsistencies in the cops notes/reports and what you say happened.

Hrm ... fair enough, can't argue with your experience. Just that my experience as defense counsel has been different, the judge is supposed to be impartial, but I personally can't say that they would take the defendant's word over the officer's. :)

[leungalv]

Yeah man we've all seen law and order.. Nice miranda drop though lol

Of the 50+ times I've been pulled over or been in a vehicle that was pulled over, 2 of them the cops said "i am legally obligated to tell you this is being recorded" so I'm pretty sure you'd know if they're recording anything.

LOL ... I've never actually watched law and order, I should catch an episode

[loki]

LOL ... I've never actually watched law and order, I should catch an episode

you can't argue with someone who's been pulled over 50+ times....:rolleyes


Law and Order is an awesome show. I recommend the early seasons with Ben Stone as the attorney.

[cSPEED]

you can't argue with someone who's been pulled over 50+ times....:rolleyes


Law and Order is an awesome show. I recommend the early seasons with Ben Stone as the attorney.

Yeah or maybe you should read what I wrote, that helps too

[MarkWB]

Hrm ... fair enough, can't argue with your experience. Just that my experience as defense counsel has been different, the judge is supposed to be impartial, but I personally can't say that they would take the defendant's word over the officer's. :)

Well I can't argue with your experience either, you're a lawyer, LOL maybe we've just been talking to different judges. I just find that if the cop is going to accuse yyou of admitting guilt to him and he didn't even write down what you said or record it with consent the judge would likely look at that as kind of unprofessional, and wonder if what the cop is saying is entiely true, especially when the defendant outright denies it.

Also, law and order is a GREAT show.

[Marta]

LOL ... I've never actually watched law and order, I should catch an episode

+1. Its great

[Lactose]

You realize this is one of the reasons our taxes are so high... we have to pay the cops to show up for everyone's piddly little tickets because they can't be assed to man up and pay.


To bad even if everyone started paying and showing up and they didnt need that tax money, it would still be high. There's always an excuse or reason for raising taxes. Two things you cant escape from in life is death and taxes.

[MarkWB]

To bad even if everyone started paying and showing up and they didnt need that tax money, it would still be high. There's always an excuse or reason for raising taxes. Two things you cant escape from in life is death and taxes.

This ^

And even if Harper wanted to raise taxes to put the boots to us 2-4 demerit point murderers, it would have to be a part of a "new budget plan." If that doesn't get past the house vote (which it wont with the NDP and Liberals around), an election is automatically called. Whos gonna' vote for Harper the tax man, especially when he's ready to hire more cops and prosecutors (millions of dollars) to stick it to a bunch of people with expired plates and 30 over tickets.

Thinking paying your ticket because you were guilty is "the right thing to do" and you're "manning up" is exactly what they want.

[Lactose]

This ^

And even if Harper wanted to raise taxes to put the boots to us 2-4 demerit point murderers, it would have to be a part of a "new budget plan." If that doesn't get past the house vote (which it wont with the NDP and Liberals around), an election is automatically called. Whos gonna' vote for Harper the tax man, especially when he's ready to hire more cops and prosecutors (millions of dollars) to stick it to a bunch of people with expired plates and 30 over tickets.

Thinking paying your ticket because you were guilty is "the right thing to do" and you're "manning up" is exactly what they want.


Also if cops stopped giving petty tickets then we wouldnt be in the whole situation to begin with.

[leungalv]

Well I can't argue with your experience either, you're a lawyer, LOL maybe we've just been talking to different judges. I just find that if the cop is going to accuse yyou of admitting guilt to him and he didn't even write down what you said or record it with consent the judge would likely look at that as kind of unprofessional, and wonder if what the cop is saying is entiely true, especially when the defendant outright denies it.

Also, law and order is a GREAT show.

Fair enough ;-) Ya, the cops really should have written it down in his notes. I wouldn't believe a defendant who outright denies their guilt. I had a client in Ann Arbor, MI who was adament to maintain his innocence ... till I obtained the security video from the prosecutor ...:rolleyes