thought violent crime was on the decrease?

[MarkWB]

This guy just put the stats on blast. Pretty sure this counts as terrorism?

http://www.cp24.com/two-dead-in-mass-shooting-in-scarborough-infant-among-injured-1.881607#ixzz20rvzLGvV

[07carbon3]

wtf not again...can't wait to move out of this pos city

[Hoodzy]

If only the police weren't so busy worrying about speeders.. ugh

[FD22]

Wow, that's horrible. These people need to start facing harsher penalties, or something, to keep future incidents like this from happening. Seems like it's a little too easy to get a hold of a weapon these days.

[FoXy]

I don’t think you can control these people. They aren’t afraid, nor will they be. There are just going to end up with more and more people in jails, and then they let them out early cus they are overcrowded. It's not this city that's effed, it's society in general. You piss me off, I shoot you dead. Not a good logic but it seems more and more people are having it. They just don't care, and everyone has a superiority complex... oh, and a whacked out sense of entitlement. I blame the parents. It's a vicious cycle of degenerates breeding degenerates, and they never become productive members of society.

[coriolis]

I don’t think you can control these people. They aren’t afraid, nor will they be. There are just going to end up with more and more people in jails, and then they let them out early cus they are overcrowded. It's not this city that's effed, it's society in general. You piss me off, I shoot you dead. Not a good logic but it seems more and more people are having it. They just don't care, and everyone has a superiority complex... oh, and a whacked out sense of entitlement. I blame the parents. It's a vicious cycle of degenerates breeding degenerates, and they never become productive members of society.

Right on the dot. You can't point fingers at one group of people, be it the community, the 'easy & popular choice' of the police, or the government. No one wins, everyone loses. Toronto isn't any more or less dangerous than any other Canadian city, it is just the size of the GTA that skews the statistics. A large population means a potential for more violence, its unavoidable, but it could be preventable, but it ain't easy, or cheap. Compare Toronto to any other world city with similar population and compare the violence (be it guns, sexual assault, etc.) and we're really not that bad.

I've lived in Toronto all my life, I was born here, raised here, went to school and graduated here, and now I work in the city. Am I afraid of violence? Of course, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't, but the fact remains that one or two bad apples does not mean the whole city is crumbling.

FoXy said it best, its society not our city.

[m_bisson]

It's interesting to watch crime change with demographics... Most criminals are between 16-24 years old, then after 24 most criminals finally grow up and get jobs. With the baby boomers there was a huge rise in crime as they reached that age range, and it's been slowly dwindling down ever since. Because there was no "welcome home from war make some babies" party for the kids of the baby boomers, children haven't recently been born in huge groups. Births are more spread out, and people are starting to have fewer kids in general. In fact, if it wasn't for immigration, Canada's population would actually be shrinking.

Another interesting part of demographics is looking at how poverty affects crime, or doesn't. They are related, but it still cannot be proven that wanting a 'rich' life is what causes crime. These kids don't join gangs because they will get money, they join gangs because they want to feel loved, like they belong, which they can't get from their family. It's most likely related to parents who imbue certain world views on their children and then the children are sheltered in a gang/street culture where they start to internalize violence as a "norm." This means that they don't think twice before turning to violence to solve a crime. The problem is with the parents, not the kids.

This is why it's hard to say where poverty fits in... I personally believe these people are poor BECAUSE of the choices they've made, not that poverty is causing them to make bad choices.

So........ how do we fix it? Do we make people get a parenting license before they're allowed to make babies? Do we set up cameras in homes to watch for child abuse and neglect? None of the solutions are "politically correct" and because we can't actually get anything done the problems persist.



As for dangerous cities.... Brantford has more crimes per capita than any other city in Ontario. It ranks 11th in Canada. The majority of violent crime occurs in the praries, not the east and west coasts. Toronto is actually relatively safe :)

[sammyboi36]

not surprising it happened in galloway

[midnightfxgt]

Blair calls it the worst case of gun violence in North America?! What a dummy.

[rzapata]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NOPGggtaAZM/UAWd236w1WI/AAAAAAAAAaY/WHlDXHfFmR4/s351/This%2520is%2520Scarborough.JPG

[Fack_Dude]

Scarborough. Aka crooktown

[Default User]

I blame the government and media attention for the misconceptions of Scarborough.

[midnightfxgt]

I blame the government and media attention for the misconceptions of Scarborough.

The same Government injecting hundreds of millions into Scarborough to make it safer?

[Lockdown]

The same Government injecting hundreds of millions into Scarborough to make it safer?

It's come a long way in a short time that area. I grew up right around the corner from that, just the other side of Kingston. There have been a lot of changes in the last 15-20 years there and although public opinion hasn't changed, it's a really nice area again. I'd move back if it were a little more affordable.

[midnightfxgt]

Agreed, Scarborough isn't as bad as some make it out. However, it isn't great IMO. I've lived in Durham almost all my life, so maybe I am pampered a little bit. I feel better out this way, not to mention house prices ;)

[Default User]

The same Government injecting hundreds of millions into Scarborough to make it safer?

I've lived in East Scarb almost my whole life. I haven't seen anything done to make it safer or better...other than maybe opening a liquor store behind an elementary school, building a chinese community centre in an area predominately run with west indians, and trying to closing down the recreation centre in the middle of Malvern.

I've been dodging the same pot holes everyday for the past 9-10 years. But then again - they did approve the zone for habitat for humanity and all those co-op buildings sure help a lot of people.

[zzz3]

not surprising it happened in galloway

brap! brap! G-WAAAY...lol
http://i.imgur.com/r9yRf.gif

[Default User]

Agreed, Scarborough isn't as bad as some make it out. However, it isn't great IMO. I've lived in Durham almost all my life, so maybe I am pampered a little bit. I feel better out this way, not to mention house prices ;)

Durham is a great and growing community. Too bad a lot of people from Malvern are moving out to those areas LOL
I would like to move out that way myself - but I cant get over the cost of property tax compared to Scarborough.
Its automatically DOUBLED by the time you pass Port Union into the "905"

[midnightfxgt]

I've lived in East Scarb almost my whole life. I haven't seen anything done to make it safer or better...other than maybe opening a liquor store behind an elementary school, building a chinese community centre in an area predominately run with west indians, and trying to closing down the recreation centre in the middle of Malvern.

I've been dodging the same pot holes everyday for the past 9-10 years. But then again - they did approve the zone for habitat for humanity and all those co-op buildings sure help a lot of people.

Still, Hundreds of Millions is a lot, even if you don't directly see it. That being said, they are Gov't projects, so to a normal initiative, thats like $10,000 lol

[Fobio]

my take on violent crimes:

Statistically, violent crime numbers are going down. However, with the current state of our "let's get this story out to ppl to sell news and banner ads...facts be damned!" world, as deomonstrated last night as they kept stressing that an infant died (when in fact the infant did not die), as if it's worst that a 12 month old died vs a 12 yr old or 24 yr old.

Since typical violent crime is down, the media outlets clamour to cover it and sensationalize the incident.

so violent crime numbers are down, but we hear more about it. Lastly, Toronto is now a grown-up city, with grown-up problems and grown-up needs...I'm sure you can move to Winnipeg or Vancouver and...oh wait, scratch that. Want to end SEEING violent crime? then cut the cable and move to Kingston and...oh wait, nevermind....

[Default User]

Still, Hundreds of Millions is a lot, even if you don't directly see it. That being said, they are Gov't projects, so to a normal initiative, thats like $10,000 lol

LOL
Again 100,000,000 of money spent by our govt that didn't do squat, but convince everyone that they "care"

And as Fobio said, the media blast on this is ludicrous. Yes, unfortunately 2 people died in crossfire. Somebody else died in a hit and run in Brampton, and some kid robbing a vet clinic in Pickering was also shot dead. Their 15 minutes of fame was ousted the moment the media was able to publicize another "Scarborough is bad" story

[Egierda]

Wow, that's horrible. These people need to start facing harsher penalties, or something, to keep future incidents like this from happening. Seems like it's a little too easy to get a hold of a weapon these days.

Let me guess, you voted left last election?

[Lockdown]

It's not that it is difficult to get a hold of anything but weapons used in violent crimes are rarely registered weapons.

No one is really very accurate their first time with a firearm but people who legally purchase their firearms tend to be a pretty decent shot from my experience.

If someone has never fired, there is a much higher likelihood of missing the intended target or using more rounds than necessary for the desired effect.

[Lactose]

It's not that it is difficult to get a hold of anything but weapons used in violent crimes are rarely registered weapons.

No one is really very accurate their first time with a firearm but people who legally purchase their firearms tend to be a pretty decent shot from my experience.

If someone has never fired, there is a much higher likelihood of missing the intended target or using more rounds than necessary for the desired effect.



Jump to: navigation, search
A pistol held sideways.

The side grip is a technique for shooting a handgun in which the weapon is rotated about ninety degrees and held horizontally instead of vertically (as is normally done). Shooting a gun in this way has no practical benefit under most circumstances and makes proper aiming very difficult, but the style has become somewhat popular in rap culture and among street criminals (who do not often use the gun sight)[1] due to its portrayal in U.S. film and television since the 1990s.[2]

Damn Television and Film Media.

[MarkWB]

Spend all the millions you want on police services and jails, you're just prolonging this issue and creating more of these incidents. The problem here and in other shootings is simple...you've got poor, neglected kids growing up often without fathers (jail?) They're growing up and using these shooters and other criminals as male role models and they think its cool, they feel accepted. You throw good money in the mix and you have a brotherhood forged in misplaced anger and greed. When firearms become involved , well, we've all seen the results.

So who's happy Toronto kept those libraries? Nobody listened when I said we need more youth programs and that nobody goes to libraries (in the at risk youth bracket) but you librarians insisted. Maybe if this shooter had someone to talk to and a job he wouldn't have done this. All it takes is one person to legitimately care.

[Lockdown]

The resources are there. Programs and libraries is a bullshit answer that is tossed around. There are more opportunities than ever. There is a lack of responsibility l. If anyone wants to, they can choose. You're saying they don't know what's right ? They know exactly what they are doing is wrong but choose the easy quick cash rather than studying, getting a job and working.

[MarkWB]

The resources are there. Programs and libraries is a bullshit answer that is tossed around. There are more opportunities than ever. There is a lack of responsibility l. If anyone wants to, they can choose. You're saying they don't know what's right ? They know exactly what they are doing is wrong but choose the easy quick cash rather than studying, getting a job and working.

You know how average people don't generally dream of buying an expensive, 100+k car because it's just "unrealistic?" To a poor person, the things average people have are just as far away as a rich mans car is to a working class man. A lot of these shooters are young and easily influenced by the group mentality. I'm not saying its okay to shoot up a bbq, but this could have been prevented, and society failed this person the same way they failed society. Of course, the law is the law, and for a crime like this especially, justice must be served, but wouldn't it be nice if this didn't have to happen in the first place? 2 people lost their lives, 23 others were injured...including a baby, and all for us toi just say "lock him up?" We all need to learn from these crimes.

[fywdyl]

Two words:
Death Penalty.

- Great deterrent
- Saves tax money

[Lockdown]

I'm in for the death penalty as well.

Now as for talking about what others have and wanting that. No issue there, you gotta work for it.
It's simple, you trade your time for goods/services or money which can be used for goods or services.

It's unrealistic to think because you don't want to work for something that you should be entitled to it.

It should never have to happen but it does.

If a parent has to go to work so there is somewhere for a child to come home to, the child skips, school and it's the parents fault for not being around enough.
If the parent has a poor dwelling, child services come and take the child away.
A child can't get a failing grade because they don't complete the work anymore. No more holding children back because their feelings are in jeopardy.

All that being said are we talking about 10 year old kids, no. (they were at one point but so was anyone who reached 11)
At 15 years old, everyone knows what is right and wrong and we make decisions based on our values and beliefs, wherever they came from.

[silverstarmazda]

man scarborough just isnt wat it use to be anymore... we need bounty hunters

[coriolis]

An interesting read: http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/wokxt/breaking_news_11_people_shot_at_house/

[Lactose]

An interesting read: http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/wokxt/breaking_news_11_people_shot_at_house/

Dang that guy has a lot of time, or is amazing at twitter or both. Good stuff there.

[MarkWB]

An interesting read: http://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/wokxt/breaking_news_11_people_shot_at_house/

I'd like to say retaliatory violence is just not the answer and will only lead to more violence, but honestly, if this was my sister/girlfriend/brother dead or shot because some morons got in a fight, I'd want my own justice too. Hopefully this doesn't mean more collateral damage/innocent victims, but I won't feel bad if the gunman here turns up dead in a couple weeks.

[Lockdown]

I'd like to say retaliatory violence is just not the answer and will only lead to more violence, but honestly, if this was my sister/girlfriend/brother dead or shot because some morons got in a fight, I'd want my own justice too. Hopefully this doesn't mean more collateral damage/innocent victims, but I won't feel bad if the gunman here turns up dead in a couple weeks.

I do agree with you that retaliation and more violence is not the answer and I don't wish harm upon them but hey, we all have accidents, drowning in a spoonful of water is possible.

[krimsalt]

Idiots with guns.... not surprising... There are alot of people not born with brains to open fire because of an altercation...

[m_bisson]

Two words:
Death Penalty.

- Great deterrent
- Saves tax money
Wrong.... and...wrong...

In the 70s when Canada abolished the death penalty, violent crime spiked for about 2 or 3 years, but since then it's been getting lower and lower. It's lower now than it ever was with the death penalty.
And it ends up costing about the same because people sentenced to death are allowed a whole bunch of appeals, which cost the country millions of dollars. Also, there were several wrongful executions in Canada. I don't think any innocent person should ever be killed for a crime they didn't do, and by not having the death penalty they can at least be released from prison if wrongfully convicted.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/08/06/f-wrongfully-convicted.html

[midnightfxgt]

Anyone who red the Twitter article will see that these are not rational thinking people. Nor can they spell or piece together a sentence

[Kevin@nextmod]

Check this news out. Just happened today

http://m.citynews.ca/news/215480/index.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.citytv.com%2Ftoront o%2Fcitynews%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Farticle%2F215480--man-arrested-after-alleged-machete-attack

[Default User]

^^^ the ride into work was a PITA

[rzapata]

Check this news out. Just happened today

http://m.citynews.ca/news/215480/index.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.citytv.com%2Ftoront o%2Fcitynews%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Farticle%2F215480--man-arrested-after-alleged-machete-attack

Heard this in the news this morning as well... Really though, not even a few weeks after that deadly shooting... Crazy dummies!

[Lactose]

I do agree with you that retaliation and more violence is not the answer and I don't wish harm upon them but hey, we all have accidents, drowning in a spoonful of water is possible.

Well when it's gang violence involved. There will be retaliation, which will lead to more retaliation.

[Default User]

Well when it's gang violence involved. There will be retaliation, which will lead to more retaliation.

who said this had anything to do with gang violence and the recent block party shooting?

[fywdyl]

Wrong.... and...wrong...

In the 70s when Canada abolished the death penalty, violent crime spiked for about 2 or 3 years, but since then it's been getting lower and lower. It's lower now than it ever was with the death penalty.
And it ends up costing about the same because people sentenced to death are allowed a whole bunch of appeals, which cost the country millions of dollars. Also, there were several wrongful executions in Canada. I don't think any innocent person should ever be killed for a crime they didn't do, and by not having the death penalty they can at least be released from prison if wrongfully convicted.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2009/08/06/f-wrongfully-convicted.html

Right, those that were wrongfully convicted were convicted 20+ years ago. With today's technology, wrongful conviction could potentially be greatly reduced.

No system is perfect I guess, and I suck at debating so I'm gonna stop here.

[midnightfxgt]

Yea, the whole Death Penalty thing can go both ways.

I guess some people have no issue paying for sick individuals like Paul Bernardo to be protected, and his equally sick ex-wife getting a university education on taxpayer dimes?

-John

[Lactose]

who said this had anything to do with gang violence and the recent block party shooting?

The twitter references is what I was talking about. It's leaning toward gang or atleast "group" related violence based on the twitter posts. Nothing official from the police.


As to the death penalty. Recently a woman was released after 14(?) years for the wrongful conviction of killing her kid. Just saying...

[midnightfxgt]

As to the death penalty. Recently a woman was released after 14(?) years for the wrongful conviction of killing her kid. Just saying...

I don't know the story, but it was most likely due to today's technology that wasn't present back then. I think it should be in place, and used sparingly. Like in cases like that Luca guy videotaping himself. There is no disputing that he did it.

[Lactose]

I don't know the story, but it was most likely due to today's technology that wasn't present back then. I think it should be in place, and used sparingly. Like in cases like that Luca guy videotaping himself. There is no disputing that he did it.

But there is disputing to his mental health, and what ever else the defendants will try.

[rzapata]

I don't know the story, but it was most likely due to today's technology that wasn't present back then. I think it should be in place, and used sparingly. Like in cases like that Luca guy videotaping himself. There is no disputing that he did it.


But there is disputing to his mental health, and what ever else the defendants will try.

The guy's pleading "not guilty on all counts." He's got to have some sort of mental issue for sure. Although, if it's proven that he's crazy, he's gonna get a better treatment than if he was convicted of murder while sane. This is where the system fails. There has to be another option for special cases like this.

Also, apparently, he was "abused" too that's why he did all that crap! Seriously, anything just to get out of jail sentence!

LINK (http://www.cp24.com/lawyer-who-heard-magnotta-allege-abuse-could-be-defence-witness-1.880986)

[Paton]

Good to see educated members chiming in. Capital punishment does not deter and is not a cheaper solution.

Crime has been going down for decades but that doesn't sell. Try to stay objective when you read these stories. Media companies are a business.

Can't wait for SNOWMAGGEDON 2013!

[Hoodzy]

What I don't understand with these altercations. Is if you are really that pissed and wanna kill someone.. Why is it necessary to do it in A. a public area filled with people and B. Far away with a group of people in the way.
Shit man if you want to kill someone walk up behind them and bust a cap and be done with it.

[Lockdown]

How you gonna gets ya street cred, if no one seez ya?

[standsideways]

Pfft. Send the scarborough boys down to mexico, they will come back crying.

Toronto=fire small caliber hand gun sporadically into street hoping to "scare the otha bloodclat off da block"

Mexico=machine gun, behead,dismember,hang familys, reporters, police, drug dealers, everyone.

Yet toronto gets some bad wrap for being un safe, yet it looks like a more ideal vacation destination LOL

We havent had 60k murders in a few years atleast.

[Default User]

Good to see educated members chiming in. Capital punishment does not deter and is not a cheaper solution.

Crime has been going down for decades but that doesn't sell. Try to stay objective when you read these stories. Media companies are a business.

Can't wait for SNOWMAGGEDON 2013!

Like I said....


I blame the government and media attention for the misconceptions of Scarborough.

Also - just remember - just because violence and crime happen in Scarborough, it doesn't mean the people committing the crime is from Scarborough.

Growing up in Scarborough - a lot of fights came from people bringing it to us. Markham and Pickering were always trying to pick fights.

I'm not saying everyone in Scarborough is a saint, but the media portrays Scarborough like a slum



Pfft. Send the scarborough boys down to mexico, they will come back crying.


...and how do you think the Markham and Mississauga boys would handle it?

[silverstarmazda]

anyone hear about the machete attack this morning at sheppard and mccowan? scray stuff...i use to work there...and he was hiding in the car lot

[Lockdown]

anyone hear about the machete attack this morning at sheppard and mccowan? scray stuff...i use to work there...and he was hiding in the car lot

Yeah that was kind of hard to miss. He was crying when they found him.
Pure thug

I'm going with premeditated on that one. Why else would you be out on foot with a machete at 4:00AM?

It looks like a bad summer for violence.

[silverstarmazda]

Yeah that was kind of hard to miss. He was crying when they found him.
Pure thug

I'm going with premeditated on that one. Why else would you be out on foot with a machete at 4:00AM?

It looks like a bad summer for violence.

LOL was he rly?? damn

[rzapata]

Yeah that was kind of hard to miss. He was crying when they found him.
Pure thug

I'm going with premeditated on that one. Why else would you be out on foot with a machete at 4:00AM?

It looks like a bad summer for violence.


LOL was her rly?? damn

I think he said "I'm sorry" while crying when the police caught up to him. At least that's what they say on the news. :chuckle Pathetic!

[silverstarmazda]

lol so ghetto... a machete around the streets... at least it wasnt a gun i guess. damn, wat has scarborough become...

[rzapata]

lol so ghetto... a machete around the streets... at least it was a gun i guess. damn, wat has scarborough become...

The guy must have seen The Patriot and thought he's Mel Gibson with the tomahawk. :chuckle

[silverstarmazda]

The guy must have seen The Patriot and thought he's Mel Gibson with the tomahawk. :chuckle

LOL if i was a cop id like to carry around an axe too lol

[Lactose]

I'm going with premeditated on that one. Why else would you be out on foot with a machete at 4:00AM?


Drunk? Bath Salts? All of the above? :chuckle

I have classes that end at 9-10 at UTSC, people get robbed at the parking lot all the time. Aw shit.

[silverstarmazda]

oh, i forgot to mention. there was also a drug bust in one of the storage lockers near by just a couple of yards down sheppard too. apparently it was filled with a drug of some sort

[Lactose]

For those commenting on the relation to gangs and retaliation

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2012/07/19/20003651.html