"Engine Restore"

[a_ahmed]

I've used this on my other cars and i've used it on my mazda 3 with the blown engine with rod bearing failure. I put 5w30 amsoil in the new engine... and I avoided putting engine restore BUT I am curious...

Does anyone actually KNOW what is in this? What does it actually do within the engine?

In practice, it really makes the engine smoother, it really increases power and mpg... noticeable... it even makes the engine quieter... beautiful... but is it actually harmful in anyway long term?

[a_ahmed]

And if you're wondering it's this:

http://www.ametech.co.uk/ekmps/shops/ametech/resources/Design/engine-restorer-250ml-xlg.jpg

The one I get is 4cyl, although on my 240sx 2.4l 4cyl i was told that people use 6cyl and ive used that... and it worked fine... in the mazda 3 i used the 4cyl its just less volume per bottle.. and there is an 8 cyl formula too

[silverstarmazda]

lol ive done my research on this stuff. and unless you got some serious wear in your engine, i would say you wont need this. this is more for jeeps with over 200, 000 kilometers. its an additive that makes the oil stick to the walls of the cylinders better, allowing better a better seal and less blow by. however, this might thicken your oil which isnt good for the pump. it wont thicken it by much but it will. unless your burning a ridiculous amount of oil and high milage oil doesnt work, i wouldnt use this just yet

[TheMAN]

it's not bad, but you're better off with a real engine flush then using a high mileage motor oil

[silverstarmazda]

this isnt an engine flush, its an oil additive. it replaces about a cans worth of oil

[a_ahmed]

So are you saying. Lets say our engine takes 4.5 quarts... with this instead of using 4.5 we use 3.5 and then add this? Damn i was adding this on top of whatever was in already o_O I was under the impression it would burn away while driving or something...

[Wes08M3]

lol ive done my research on this stuff. and unless you got some serious wear in your engine, i would say you wont need this. this is more for jeeps with over 200, 000 kilometers. its an additive that makes the oil stick to the walls of the cylinders better, allowing better a better seal and less blow by. however, this might thicken your oil which isnt good for the pump. it wont thicken it by much but it will. unless your burning a ridiculous amount of oil and high milage oil doesnt work, i wouldnt use this just yet

If it does in fact thicken the oil, not only does it cause problems with the pump but a thicker oil causes more engine start-up wear. Which would make this stuff counter productive...

Seems pointless to me unless your engine is heavily worn, in which case this is a cheap "fix".

[TheMAN]

long term, it cheaper to do an engine flush and use high mileage oil afterwards
I'd only use this stuff if I wanted to be shady when I go sell/trade a car

[a_ahmed]

I am using 5w30 amsoil right now.. i dont think ill add anything else... at least ill use it in summer in winter ill go back to 5w20

[midnitehour]

So are you saying. Lets say our engine takes 4.5 quarts... with this instead of using 4.5 we use 3.5 and then add this? Damn i was adding this on top of whatever was in already o_O I was under the impression it would burn away while driving or something...

and you wonder why your motor blew? stick to just oil following the regular change schedule and you'll be fine. No need to mess with additives

[silverstarmazda]

bottom line, this product is for sevearly worn engines with up to 200, 000 kms. i would imagine the honda and toyota guys using this.

[Wes08M3]

I am using 5w30 amsoil right now.. i dont think ill add anything else... at least ill use it in summer in winter ill go back to 5w20

5w-20 oil is technically not any thinner than 5w-30 at ambient temps, meaning it's not going to flow much better when it's cold. If you want something that flows better in the cold, without question, use a 0 weight oil. 0w-20 or 0w-30 oil would be best.

Very good information here. (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/)

In actuality, you'd be better off using a 0w-20 or 0w-30 all year round if you follow BITOG's guidelines. Most engine wear occurs during START-UP which is why a 0 weight is better.

[a_ahmed]

Well I used 0w20 and the motor blew and ppl were criticizing me for it. I took that advice you are giving prior from reading people switching to 0w20... but there..

[Zuluwun]

Most 2.3L engines that blow do so from oil starvation. That means it doesn't matter what viscosity oil is in there, if it runs low, the engine blows. 0W20 is no thinner that 5W20 at operating temps anyway.

[Wes08M3]

Most 2.3L engines that blow do so from oil starvation. That means it doesn't matter what viscosity oil is in there, if it runs low, the engine blows. 0W20 is no thinner that 5W20 at operating temps anyway.

+1

0w-20 oil is not the reason the engine blew. It likely blew because it was consuming oil and didn't have a sufficient amount at one point in time. That's why people were questioning you, not because of the oil grade.

0w-20 is the recommended oil for the MZR now, do you really think Mazda changed anything from 2010 to 2011 to accomodate this thinner oil on a motor they soon will not be using? Not likely... It should be more than fine for any 3 that has had proper maintenance. Just my conclusions from some research though.

[TheMAN]

I'm not going to speculate on why his engine blew, but it is a known fact that running any 20 weight oil with these engines causes the oil to be burned because it's a thin, energy conserving oil... there's far less problems running a 30 weight oil

[silverstarmazda]

my 04 ran 5w20 all its life and switched to synthetic 10,000 km ago and it still doesnt burn a drop of oil

[Wes08M3]

Been running Castrol 5w-20 dino in the '07 for 230,000km and it doesn't burn a drop of oil either.

I'm not saying no MZR burns oil but that doesn't mean they should be. Proper maintenance plays a key role here too.

[Impressive]

Been running Castrol 5w-20 dino in the '07 for 230,000km and it doesn't burn a drop of oil either.

I'm not saying no MZR burns oil but that doesn't mean they should be. Proper maintenance plays a key role here too.

Hands down the most important thing to vehicle performance is in the maintenance. I run dino oil as well in my 06 that is approaching 200,000km and I've never had any issues nor does she burn a drop of oil. She also runs just like she did when I first got her.

Synthetic is nice when you've got a brand new car, but I think it's pointless truthfully as you end up shelling out extra cash for the same result.

[TheMAN]

not a waste of money if you're going for extended oil change intervals.... it's more environmentally friendly too as there's less waste in the long term

[Impressive]

Our extended or recommended synthetic intervals are nowhere near those of our European counterparts which is pretty disappointing to be honest.

[Wes08M3]

Synthetic does have its benefits, mainly start-up wear protection (just my opinion) but I agree that sometimes you may not even notice these benefits. If you really abuse a car, these benefits might actually be noticed.

I still don't like the idea of year long drain intervals or something around there. Synthetic or not, it just doesn't feel right to keep the oil in the engine so long lol. With newer cars like mine, you're pretty much forced into running synthetic oil since 0w-20 is recommended and only comes as a synthetic. Luckily the Mazda 0w-20 is not badly priced.

[TheMAN]

Our extended or recommended synthetic intervals are nowhere near those of our European counterparts which is pretty disappointing to be honest.

I wasn't talking about following the book :rolleyes

[silverstarmazda]

i got "synthetic" and still change my oil after 5000km or how my dad says it "every other month"

[TheMAN]

I'm not going to tell you how to spend your money, but I think that's ignorance and a big waste
I never had any problems doing 16000km synthetic oil changes with my cars... that saves me money and lets me be more "green"... it's win win :)

[silverstarmazda]

that the thing though, most if not all engine oils out there are not %100 synthetic after castrol had a court case about synthetics. mobil 1's synthetic motor oil is nothing but a blend and niether is castrol. even if it says its full synthetic, you got to be a fool to think its actually full synthetic. the only real full synthetic i heard is royal purple and ams oils but im not %100 percent if they are or not.. too expensive for me. and i change every 5000km because castrol apparently has an additive that suspends deposits into the oil. and im not gonna have that floating around for more than 5000km.and not %100 of the oil goes through the oil filter, some go past the cotton ending on the top and bottom of the filter. and the oil takes this route when the filter elemnt is full and oil can no longer pass it. even if its spring loaded. you can run castrol edge syntec and you would kno how black it gets when you reach 5000km. but then again your right, you can go on and on on the same oil and not need to change it... i just wanna makes sure my engine lasts. you can use the worst oil u can get at canadian tire and still be ok with the right oil change intervals

[TheMAN]

heard of a thing called paragraphs?
I don't have time to "discuss" with you about oil life and "not 100% synthetic"... I recommend you go over to BITOG forums and educate yourself before posting such nonsense again

oh and I'm not the only one "crazy" enough to run such long oil change intervals... tons of guys on BITOG do the same thing with various different brands of oil with no problems whatsoever, no diminished engine life/accelerated wear... why? they made educated choices, like me

[Wes08M3]

Most Mobil 1 and Castrol are group III synthetic oils which doesn't mean they are a synthetic blend but it does mean they use non-synthetic base stalks. Group III is not even allowed to be called synthetic in Europe but is in North America. Some like Mobil 1 0w-40 and Castrol 0w-30 (German Castrol) are group IV synthetics which mean NO conventional oils are used in any of the processing. Royal Purple and Amsoil like you said are full synthetic PAO based group IV oils. Others like Motul and Redline are group V synthetics which use polyol esters and other fancy stuff.

In short, since Castrol is only a group III, I wouldn't be running very extended drain intervals either. I don't even think they advertise extended drain intervals for the Castrol stuff do they?

[TheMAN]

all these differentiations don't matter any more, europe stopped caring about the issue for the most part... all of this is old info
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1866948
0W30 Castrol Syntec is a group IV oil, and it is their choice not to advertised extended intervals due to liability reasons... it doesn't mean you can't do it

like I said, plenty are doing this after evaluating oil analysis reports.... many of those dos and don'ts of oil changes don't apply any more... things change, so if you keep using old info, you're going to get left behind

[silverstarmazda]

YOU can do your research on BITOG and you can learn that most oil are not fully synthetic. wes08m3 is right on the base oils not being synthetic, which is wat i mean by not %100 synthetic. tons of people on BITOG have extended theyre drain intervals, but thats because they got the oil designed for it. you can also find tons of people who have sludge problems because of extended drain intervals.

[Wes08M3]

I'm not saying it matters that Europe doesn't consider a group III a synthetic but North America does. It's just a difference in standards, it doesn't mean the oils are any different.

Castrol doesn't advertise extended drain intervals for liability reasons but Mobil and Amsoil do. I'd say that's noteworthy... You're right it doesn't mean you can't do it, especially with the GC 0w-30. But if I was going to do it, I'd use at least a group IV oil. silverstarmazda isn't using a group IV so a more conventional drain interval isn't the worst thing.

But like you say, UOA's are the best judge of what's safe and what isn't.

[silverstarmazda]

i read somewhere the euro formula is different than the american one. i personally dont like extended oil drain intervals, especially when the oil gets as dark as it does at 5000km.

[peterm15]

Wow. 16000km changes. I don't care what oil I put in. I'd get nervous.

Although I'm sure it's fine depending on the oil you use but I was raised with old cars and 7000 is my max. Mostly 5k. I know it's probably a waste of money I just feel better about it. Granted I do think at my intervals that synthetic is a waste of money, I usually buy it in bulk on sale for the same price as dino oil sale price.

As for engine restore. Not for me. The particles that are made to stick to the cylinder walls can build up on other components and be counter productive.

[TheMAN]

i read somewhere the euro formula is different than the american one. i personally dont like extended oil drain intervals, especially when the oil gets as dark as it does at 5000km.

if you're such a good reader of BITOG like you say you are, then you'll already know that colour is not indicative of the condition of the oil... good oils get dark fast because it's doing it's job
by your logic, that's like saying your air filter is good because it doesn't get dark very fast, or you never have to pick your nose because breathe clean air
coffee comes out black, so it must be dirty too right? :rolleyes

[silverstarmazda]

i never said i was a constant reader of bitog, but i do my research or specific oil and lubes and bitog is usually the forum i depend on to make my final decision. and yes, colour is probably the last way to tell the quality of the oil. oil gets dark because of the carbon in it, even with the filter. small carbon particles that make it past are in the oil and is what makes it dark. your air filter point isnt valid as that depends on how much air you put through it and whats in the air. im not even going to comment on the nose thing. and the coffee comes out black because guess what, theres coffee bean particles in it. i dont want oil particles in my oil for any extended period of time no matter how small it is. carbon also clumps together in certain conditions, and i dont want that either. even wen dissolved, it doesnt mean its not there, just means its smaller.

[stock3]

that the thing though, most if not all engine oils out there are not %100 synthetic after castrol had a court case about synthetics. mobil 1's synthetic motor oil is nothing but a blend and niether is castrol. even if it says its full synthetic, you got to be a fool to think its actually full synthetic. the only real full synthetic i heard is royal purple and ams oils but im not %100 percent if they are or not.. too expensive for me. and i change every 5000km because castrol apparently has an additive that suspends deposits into the oil. and im not gonna have that floating around for more than 5000km.and not %100 of the oil goes through the oil filter, some go past the cotton ending on the top and bottom of the filter. and the oil takes this route when the filter elemnt is full and oil can no longer pass it. even if its spring loaded. you can run castrol edge syntec and you would kno how black it gets when you reach 5000km. but then again your right, you can go on and on on the same oil and not need to change it... i just wanna makes sure my engine lasts. you can use the worst oil u can get at canadian tire and still be ok with the right oil change intervals

What a load of bull.

Have you ever opened up an oil filter? I know you didn't because if you did, you would know that there is nothing in it unless the engine is sludged up or has mechanical issues. The most I ever noticed in my oil filters is few small carbon particles and the rest of the filter media was just soaked in oil with nothing in it.

As far as deposits being suspended in the oil goes, ALL OILS DO IT. It is a one of the main design criteria of oil, as any combustion process, no matter how clean, will always produce combustion by-products. You want all particles to be suspended in oil so that they can pass through the oil filter. The ones that are big enough to cause damage will be caught in the filter while everything else circulates with oil doing absolutely no harm.


you can use the worst oil u can get at canadian tire and still be ok with the right oil change intervals

You got that right. Too bad you don't adhere to your own advice because your 5000 km OCI on synthetic is totally wrong and will not extend the life of your engine one bit.

[Wes08M3]

You got that right. Too bad you don't adhere to your own advice because your 5000 km OCI on synthetic is totally wrong and will not extend the life of your engine one bit.

This is totally wrong. Do some research before you come in here spreading information as if it's gospel.

What is the main benefit of a synthetic oil? It provides BETTER start-up protection when the oil is cold (i.e., below 40degC). When does the MOST engine wear occur? AT START-UP! So you put those two together...

This fact is completely irrelevant to OCI's. You could change your synthetic oil every 1000km or every 10,000km, that doesn't change the fact that it protects better in cold start-up conditions.

[silverstarmazda]

What a load of bull.

Have you ever opened up an oil filter? I know you didn't because if you did, you would know that there is nothing in it unless the engine is sludged up or has mechanical issues. The most I ever noticed in my oil filters is few small carbon particles and the rest of the filter media was just soaked in oil with nothing in it.

As far as deposits being suspended in the oil goes, ALL OILS DO IT. It is a one of the main design criteria of oil, as any combustion process, no matter how clean, will always produce combustion by-products. You want all particles to be suspended in oil so that they can pass through the oil filter. The ones that are big enough to cause damage will be caught in the filter while everything else circulates with oil doing absolutely no harm.



You got that right. Too bad you don't adhere to your own advice because your 5000 km OCI on synthetic is totally wrong and will not extend the life of your engine one bit.

you think carbon passing the oil filter is so good dont you. you havnt even taken into consideration that the filter media gets more and more collged over time. which is why we need to change it. this is why the entire filter usually goes black by the end of the oil change. if your filters are only soaked in oil but only has a bit of carbon in it, you should probably get that checked because the oil is probably bypassing the filter entirely. not once have i ever done an oil change and have the filter look almost new with the filter look a bit dark.

yes, all oils do suspend deposits, but some do it better than others. you want them suspended in the oil so that it can get trapped in the filter. yes some pass through and no filter is %100. the quality of the filter effects the size of carbon the passes through it. the ones that are big enough to get caught get caught, everything else goes past. as deposits are filtered out, the more clogged the filter gets and the smaller particles get caught with it until the filter is completely clogged or the deposits are forced through. somewhat like a sponge that can no longer hold anymore water. the water passes through.

you think the small deposits do no harm, but they do effect the lubricity and efficiency of the oil. which is why we change it. and if the efficiency drops, the more damage your engine takes on a microscopic level. this will eventually lead to accelerated wear.

like i said, most oils out there are only part synthetic. which means a lot of people are ruining theyre engines because they run extended OCI on what they think is full synthetic. no it will not extend my engine life, but it is preventing premature failure. the mechanical parts are what fail, and oil is what keeps it from failing. so you can run your carbon filled oil all you want. but last time i checked, carbon does not produce a film like oil does.

[lcianf01]

i got "synthetic" and still change my oil after 5000km or how my dad says it "every other month"


Me too 5000-6000km i change with castrol synthetic, doesn't burn a drop.

[silverstarmazda]

Me too 5000-6000km i change with castrol synthetic, doesn't burn a drop.

which one do you put in?? i get the castrol edge with spt. which is as stated isnt a full synthetic... but i heard the one in the gold bottle is more of a synthetic? not too sure about the titanium either...

[stock3]

This is totally wrong. Do some research before you come in here spreading information as if it's gospel.

What is the main benefit of a synthetic oil? It provides BETTER start-up protection when the oil is cold (i.e., below 40degC). When does the MOST engine wear occur? AT START-UP! So you put those two together...

This fact is completely irrelevant to OCI's. You could change your synthetic oil every 1000km or every 10,000km, that doesn't change the fact that it protects better in cold start-up conditions.

Trust me I did plenty of research and I have yet to se a STUDY that would prove that engines using synthetic oil run longer than the ones using dino. Oil companies spew a bunch of marketing hype like cleanliness and start-up protection with no back up studies exactly for the reasons so that people "can put two and two together" and make it a fact in their own minds.

Synthetic oils flow better at very low temps, no question about that, but again, I have yet to see a study, with teardowns and measurements that would prove that better flow equals less wear. In fact at -40C even the thinnest synthetics are hundreds of times heavier than the operating temp requirement, heck even in the middle of summer at the hottest day the oil is multiple times heavier than at operating temp, that's why all oils have this little thing called anti-wear additives that provide boundary lubrication during those cold starts. The thinner oil will, however, reach operating temp faster, therefore reducing the time the engine is under boundary lubrication. That in theory should reduce wear and it probably does, but I don't think it's statistically significant to engine life, as I have'nt seen the hard numbers yet. Of course you can provide those if you have them.

One last thing, the main purpose for synthetic oil is extended drain intervals, and higher flash point for applications that push the oil temperature into stratosphere. Stop reading marketing claims made during commercials or printed on oil bottles.

[silverstarmazda]

Trust me I did plenty of research and I have yet to se a STUDY that would prove that engines using synthetic oil run longer than the ones using dino. Oil companies spew a bunch of marketing hype like cleanliness and start-up protection with no back up studies exactly for the reasons so that people "can put two and two together" and make it a fact in their own minds.

Synthetic oils flow better at very low temps, no question about that, but again, I have yet to see a study, with teardowns and measurements that would prove that better flow equals less wear. In fact at -40C even the thinnest synthetics are hundreds of times heavier than the operating temp requirement, heck even in the middle of summer at the hottest day the oil is multiple times heavier than at operating temp, that's why all oils have this little thing called anti-wear additives that provide boundary lubrication during those cold starts. The thinner oil will, however, reach operating temp faster, therefore reducing the time the engine is under boundary lubrication. That in theory should reduce wear and it probably does, but I don't think it's statistically significant to engine life, as I have'nt seen the hard numbers yet. Of course you can provide those if you have them.

One last thing, the main purpose for synthetic oil is extended drain intervals, and higher flash point for applications that push the oil temperature into stratosphere. Stop reading marketing claims made during commercials or printed on oil bottles.

cleanliness is usually handled by the additives that are put in. and nothing can protect start-up protection. i am actually working on a nozle under the pistons much like the piston cooling jets you see on the f150's. when the key is in turned in the accessory it sprays oil on the chamber walls and pre lubes it..there are engine tear downs before where engine have had synthetics all theyre life and have significantly less wear. however there is much speculations to these tests due to market hype like you said.

synthetic oils retain theyre viscosity in low and high temps better and longer than conventional thats for sure. synthetics have smaller molecules which seep into build up and slow into "low flow" areas in the engine were the cleaning additives do theyre work. anit wear additives usually dont do shit as the additive itself burns out way before the end of the oils life. this usually leave you with normal oil with little to no additives and just plain oil. yes all of this is probably very insignificant in the engines life. but you also have to count in operating situations/demands. it all comes down to the oil itself with no additives, and how well those oils protect your engine. additives lose theyre effects eventually. i dont have anything black and white, but there are peopl around that have done engine tear downs.

the main purpose of synthetic oil is NOT to extend the drain intervals, the extended intervals is just a benefit that synthetic provides. the main point of synthetics is its ability to retain protection over a longer period of time while providing better protection over a wide range of temperatures. yes, marketing claims can be sketchy. but you also need to look at real world tests and reviews with real people with real cars. you would see that even the marketing claims are sometimes accurate to an extent. oil companies have been through multiple court cases and trouble with claims before, they will make sure that theyre product meets its claims to some extent. they do theyre best to avoid a law suit.

not to be rude or anything. i see your side of the story. but you need to see the real wolrd reviews and teardowns. the scientific properties of the oils and the additives and the effective life span of both. the effects of the oils before and after.

[stock3]

the main purpose of synthetic oil is NOT to extend the drain intervals, the extended intervals is just a benefit that synthetic provides. the main point of synthetics is its ability to retain protection over a longer period of time while providing better protection over a wide range of temperatures.

Which means extended drain intervals, is it not?

I think we agree more than we think, it's just we look at the same topic from two different angles:chuckle

[silverstarmazda]

Which means extended drain intervals, is it not?

I think we agree more than we think, it's just we look at the same topic from two different angles:chuckle

well i guess, but this is how i see it.... the synthetic is designed to have a longer lifespan, which allows you to drain later before the oil fails. the additives in it also have a longer lifespan. conventional oils usually fail by 6-7k which mean by 5k theyre usually done. the additives in conventional oils that keep it from sludging and burning into a crisp is almost all gone. while the synthetic stuff lasts longer... eh, yeah your right lol i guess its designed to last longer to extend drains.

but this brings me back to my point of part synthetics. which is most oil that are labeled "full synthetic" on the market today. people think theyre getting full synthetic while theyre not. the oil fails because theyre changing the oil too late. failed oil = failed motor

[Wes08M3]

Trust me I did plenty of research and I have yet to se a STUDY that would prove that engines using synthetic oil run longer than the ones using dino. Oil companies spew a bunch of marketing hype like cleanliness and start-up protection with no back up studies exactly for the reasons so that people "can put two and two together" and make it a fact in their own minds.

Synthetic oils flow better at very low temps, no question about that, but again, I have yet to see a study, with teardowns and measurements that would prove that better flow equals less wear. In fact at -40C even the thinnest synthetics are hundreds of times heavier than the operating temp requirement, heck even in the middle of summer at the hottest day the oil is multiple times heavier than at operating temp, that's why all oils have this little thing called anti-wear additives that provide boundary lubrication during those cold starts. The thinner oil will, however, reach operating temp faster, therefore reducing the time the engine is under boundary lubrication. That in theory should reduce wear and it probably does, but I don't think it's statistically significant to engine life, as I have'nt seen the hard numbers yet. Of course you can provide those if you have them.

One last thing, the main purpose for synthetic oil is extended drain intervals, and higher flash point for applications that push the oil temperature into stratosphere. Stop reading marketing claims made during commercials or printed on oil bottles.

What you are saying is pretty much proving my point. The THEORY suggests that it should reduce wear. Engine tear downs occur I'm sure however, there are so many other influencing factors that it is not just black and white when it comes to wear studies, it never is.

It has nothing to do with marketing hype, for me anyway... It's the theories behind the product that make me believe that it can help. How much will it help? Maybe not much more then dino oil but even manufacturers are using synthetic oils as factor fill to meet emissions requirements, improve fuel economy etc.

You're right about oil being far too thick at ambient temps. But synthetic is thinner still, which means it will reach proper viscosity more quickly. Which, like you said, is theoretically better.

And I agree with your boundary lubrication comments however, boundary lubrication is virtually useless at start-up speeds of an engine. Forced lubrication is required for such speeds and it's just obvious that the longer it takes to get lubrication the greater the risk of wear. The question is, like you said, will synthetic provide lubrication more quickly and the theory suggests it does.

[TheMAN]

well i guess, but this is how i see it.... the synthetic is designed to have a longer lifespan, which allows you to drain later before the oil fails. the additives in it also have a longer lifespan. conventional oils usually fail by 6-7k which mean by 5k theyre usually done. the additives in conventional oils that keep it from sludging and burning into a crisp is almost all gone. while the synthetic stuff lasts longer... eh, yeah your right lol i guess its designed to last longer to extend drains.

but this brings me back to my point of part synthetics. which is most oil that are labeled "full synthetic" on the market today. people think theyre getting full synthetic while theyre not. the oil fails because theyre changing the oil too late. failed oil = failed motor

this "part synthetics" bullshit thinking has to stop... it's been known in recent times that the current hydrocracked group 3 oils are very much as capable as the PAO group 4 or esters group 5 oils under normal use... when the group 3 oils were examined under a microscope, the chemical structures were pretty much the same as the "real" synthetics... they are not the same as what they were years ago... nobody on BITOG cares as much about the base stock differences any more considering they are all well capable of performing up to at least 10000km or more... the additional cost for "real" synthetics (boutique oils) aren't worth it for a daily driven vehicle and there's no proof that cars running "real" synthetics lasted longer or exhibited less engine wear.. in fact, it's all about the same! These comparisons were all both under dino style intervals or under extended intervals... NO DIFFERENCE in life/wear.... the only reason to even care about group 4 or 5 oils is under race use, where you'll see extended high RPMs, high mechanical stresses, high heat, etc... stuff that makes those oils shine compared to the group 3 oils which have a lower flash point and shear tolerances.... for most of us who don't race and just putt along to and from work? who cares? The Mobil1, Castrol Edge, etc "part synthetics" you love to hate does just fine, even with extended drain intervals

Yesterday I changed the oil on my 3 after 16000km, it all looked fine... no thick goop came out, the valvetrain looked super clean without any sludge or varnish (from the oil filler hole).... oil filter looked fine and the oil was not pitch black, just very dark brown like what you expect from any normal oil change... no abnormal smells either... smelled just like any used oil... what came out was german castrol and what went back in was also german castrol... if I cared to spend money again to do another oil analysis, I bet you the results will look just fine with just a little bit of life left in the oil!

[silverstarmazda]

you cant expect everyone to drive like a granny and have theyre oil last that long. people drive hard and the situation demands for it. i dont hate on castrol or mobil 1, i use that stuff in my car and its just fine. but ive know people who have put "full synthetics" in theyre high performance mustangs and have theyre engine fail the next day. so yes, there is a difference. 16,000km is a high OCI. german castrol is what i believe is full synthetic. (right?) this is why its able to stay in there that long. if you were to put the part synthetics in such as mobil 1, castrol edge spt. i highly doubt they can go for 16,000km. just cause everything looks clean, doesnt mean theres no wear. 16,000km is so far the longest drain interval i have heard of anyone doing in the mazda 3. i have heard of other cars running over 24,000km before an oil change but thats for another engine and oil. your basically proving our point for synthetics, that they last longer. and im trying to say that these part synthetics dont last that long. for your next oil change i dare you to put a part synthetic oil in and run it for another 16,000km under your normal conditions. lets see how well it stands up. so no, this "part synthetic" thinking shouldnt stop. people need to stop putting these in and think they can put over 10,000km on the oil. ive had people with classics to exotic vehicles and think they buy "full synthetics" and run them for more than 10,000km, and they end up getting the same problem with sludge and buildup.

also, how many times do you change your filter through this 16,000km?? (legit question...) and what brand do you use?. i rather change my oil early than change it late. yes it will cost me but i know theres no harm in changing it out early. to me, borderline would be anywhere in the 8,000km range for the off the shelf "synthetic" oils. i guess its the way i was taught and the way you were taught bumping heads. i was taught on the safe side and you were taught on the abilities of the oil. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

not sure if this applies to oil quality too. but just cause CT/walmart/ part source (CT branch off) is stocking high quality brands. it doesnt mean the quality of the product is on par. the company usually sell these out to make room for new formulas. like tools. lets say CT sold a stihl saw for half the price that stihl sells. if you bought the two, you would notice the quality of the CT one isnt very good compared to the direct stihl product. this is because the company sells products that a less in quality but still meet standards to big companies like CT. everyone gets money and the customer gets a low par product (that could be still high quality)

[silverstarmazda]

also found this kind of interesting about on board oil life computers...i didnt know they kept track of the operating demands and conditions... always though they were just odometer reminders lol
http://thechronicleherald.ca/wheelsnews/26228-qa-supporting-big-oil-too-frequent-oil-changes-oddly-spinning-wheels

[TheMAN]

im trying to say that these part synthetics dont last that long. for your next oil change i dare you to put a part synthetic oil in and run it for another 16,000km under your normal conditions. lets see how well it stands up. so no, this "part synthetic" thinking shouldnt stop. people need to stop putting these in and think they can put over 10,000km on the oil. ive had people with classics to exotic vehicles and think they buy "full synthetics" and run them for more than 10,000km, and they end up getting the same problem with sludge and buildup.
Ok, how about this Mazda3 with 12800km on plain jane Mobil1 5W20 which is KNOWN to have a mix of group 3 and group 4 base stocks? :rolleyes
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2623290
Or how about this Mazda6 with a MZR 2.5 that had its oil changed every 20500km using Penzoil Ultra (which is also a mix of group 3 and group 4 base stocks)? :rolleyes
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2278736
Or a Ford Fusion with the Duratec V6 motor at 17600km using plain ol' Mobil1 5W20 yet again? :rolleyes
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2721141
One last one before I waste more time that I don't want to.... a 2003 P5 which has an old design engine that is known to be harder on oils and is dirtier than the MZR... at 13760 :rolleyes
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2187698

ALL OF THOSE OILS HAVE LIFE LEFT!!! :bang
other than external causes of contamination (coolant leak, bad air filter), the oils were fine after that many miles.... on "part synthetic" as you like to call it
you don't have to drive like a granny to keep the oils like that, the only way you will ever stress the oils or anything mechanical out in any car is on the race track... saying people drive hard and that their situations demands for it is nonsense

sludge and build up happens because the additive packages in the oil are gone, the oil has gone acidic, and has been subjected to heat or shearing stresses.... it does NOT happen simply because the oil got "dirty".... it happens because the oil's life has been extinguished, which is well beyond the miles shown in those oil analysis reports

you just proved to me again that you don't know anything and I'm done even talking to you


also, how many times do you change your filter through this 16,000km?? (legit question...) and what brand do you use?. i rather change my oil early than change it late. yes it will cost me but i know theres no harm in changing it out early. to me, borderline would be anywhere in the 8,000km range for the off the shelf "synthetic" oils. i guess its the way i was taught and the way you were taught bumping heads. i was taught on the safe side and you were taught on the abilities of the oil. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

not sure if this applies to oil quality too. but just cause CT/walmart/ part source (CT branch off) is stocking high quality brands. it doesnt mean the quality of the product is on par. the company usually sell these out to make room for new formulas. like tools. lets say CT sold a stihl saw for half the price that stihl sells. if you bought the two, you would notice the quality of the CT one isnt very good compared to the direct stihl product. this is because the company sells products that a less in quality but still meet standards to big companies like CT. everyone gets money and the customer gets a low par product (that could be still high quality)
most people on BITOG who use extended intervals use a quality store bought filter, such as a Mobil1, NAPA Gold, K&N, Purolator Pure One, Motorcraft, Amsoil (made by Mann), etc.. some use OEM filters bought from the dealer.... none of them use Fram, and all of these filters work just fine for those reasonable extended intervals on a clean, well maintained car, using any quality store bought/affordable "part synthetic" oil

I cut open my Mazda OEM UK made oil filter before... it was fine... not a speck of sludge or metals.... it was dark brown inside and looked just like any old oil filter... this filter was designed for 20000km intervals IN EUROPE... these filters were sold here in the past and are still sold by European Mazda dealers.... the oil change intervals in Europe are using hydrocracked pure group 3 Mazda Dexelia brand 5W30 oil... they have the same engines from the same factories as our cars built under the same tolerances...
http://vegaauto.com.ua/oil/MAZDA-OIL.pdf
to say I'm crazy for running 16000km oil changes was indicative enough that you had no idea what you're talking about... I chose to buy/use German Castrol because the price was right; why get other oils that aren't as good for the same price? Even if I did buy any of the "lesser" oils, it still is a non-issue... and if the "dirty oil" was such an issue, why do big trucks change their oil typically every 32000km, using CONVENTIONAL "dino" oil? Their engines are never shut down, they see severe heavy duty... their oil filters are never changed until the oil is changed either... their filters are not "oversized", they are matched in size to their huge engines just like ours is sized to match to our engines.... it's also known that diesel engines put a lot of soot in oil too.. is it a problem? NO.... in all regards, me changing my oil at 16000km is very conservative compared to what others have done!

get with the times, stop listening to jiffy lube's 3000 mile crap, and stop wasting our time with your bullshit

[Kenneth360]

Hey everyone, I have a 2006 mazda hb with 96,000 miles, I fell into the dreaded Mazda burning oil trap, one morning got up on it, boom I have a knocking. Took it to the dealer ship, only had a quart and a half left therefore they said it's rod and or bearings, and I need my engine replaced. The dealership quoted me 4 to 5 k. I tried another place they said they will get an engine from japan with 40,000 miles and swap it for $3,500 and throw in a clutch for another $300.00, I was thinking just getting a rebuild on the lower cause as of now it's still drivable and doesn't seem bad. I just need some opinions here, on what to do, and if that's a good price I'm getting. Please help !!!

[Kenneth360]

Hey everyone, I have a 2006 mazda hb with 96,000 miles, I fell into the dreaded Mazda burning oil trap, one morning got up on it, boom I have a knocking. Took it to the dealer ship, only had a quart and a half left therefore they said it's rod and or bearings, and I need my engine replaced. The dealership quoted me 4 to 5 k. I tried another place they said they will get an engine from japan with 40,000 miles and swap it for $3,500 and throw in a clutch for another $300.00, I was thinking just getting a rebuild on the lower cause as of now it's still drivable and doesn't seem bad. I just need some opinions here, on what to do, and if that's a good price I'm getting. Please help !!!

[TheMAN]

engine is going to blow up inevitably, leaving you inconveniently stranded... probably during the worst of any day... in the middle of a storm
your choice to get it rebuilt or replaced..... it's probably cheaper to just get it replaced

[a_ahmed]

Yeah... rebuild it asap or else the block will blow like mine did. It's such bs, that people claim there is no problem when so many ppl are having these issues and without a doubt in my mind it's a flawed/poor rod bearing setup... but I'm sure mazda will never come forward with it...I've read of this on sub 100k mazdas and on mazda above...

Right now I am running thicker oil 5w30 vs 5w20 on a new engine and so far no problems... about to go for my 5k change (I go through 5k in 2 months.. i drive alot..)

[highlineMotors]

Hey everyone, I have a 2006 mazda hb with 96,000 miles, I fell into the dreaded Mazda burning oil trap, one morning got up on it, boom I have a knocking. Took it to the dealer ship, only had a quart and a half left therefore they said it's rod and or bearings, and I need my engine replaced. The dealership quoted me 4 to 5 k. I tried another place they said they will get an engine from japan with 40,000 miles and swap it for $3,500 and throw in a clutch for another $300.00, I was thinking just getting a rebuild on the lower cause as of now it's still drivable and doesn't seem bad. I just need some opinions here, on what to do, and if that's a good price I'm getting. Please help !!!

If you plan on keeping the vehicle, I would get the engine with lower mileage and good warranty.

[TheMAN]

the JDM engine is not advisable... it has higher compression pistons, the stock ECU might not like it