TM3 Track day!?

[2012speed3]

I'm gauging interest in a track day at Shannonvile. To make this work on the long track we would be looking at a minimum of 20 guys (or girls) @ $300 each. This would include a full day of lapping with plenty of track time, lots of bottled water and lunch! This would be a week day event and would require a 50% deposit up front.

Edit: This would be open to all types of cars provided they road/track worthy.This would also require you to have a Snell 2005 or better approved helmet that fits. I do have a dozen or so rentals that would be available.

Any interest?

[Kiyomi]

1. 2012speed3
2. Kiyomi

it would have to be on a sunday, and the more people, the less the cost im assuming.
thought about other tracks such as mosport ddt?

[stevenma188]

I would be interested, but highly doubt we can get 20 people out.

[2012speed3]

I've got a few non mazda buddies that are interested. Track rental price is near double on weekends so it would have to be a week day. If I can get a day at Shannonville booked I'd be setting up a few other days elsewhere.after

[condor888000]

Whoa! $300 is nuts for Shannonville IMO. That's Mosport/Calabogie/Tremblant money.

I'd be interested (date dependent), but only at half that price.

[schmat66]

300 is alot, depending on price id be down and prolly have 2 or 3 buddies down

[n00bMeiSter]

$300 per person is way too much, and you won't get many people out on a week day. Try and do a Saturday or Sunday, or maybe even a Friday.

When were you thinking of doing this anyways? April? May? June?

[Booter22]

even when water and lunch is supplied? i dont know what it should cost but i would be interested just to come out and watch.

[2012speed3]

For $150 a day you would a) have a group double the size which means less track time or b) run a smaller track which again means less track time. You get what you pay for!

[2012speed3]

I'm hoping to get this happening in late April, I can also have a photographer at the track so that everybody has an option to buy pictures.

[MS308-john-a]

$300 per person is way too much, and you won't get many people out on a week day. Try and do a Saturday or Sunday, or maybe even a Friday.

When were you thinking of doing this anyways? April? May? June?

+1

[Kiyomi]

the track event doesnt have to be the whole day. we could just go to open lapping at tmp during the evenings for 60$ pre-paid. your not gonna have your car out there for the whole day running.

[condor888000]

For $150 a day you would a) have a group double the size which means less track time or b) run a smaller track which again means less track time. You get what you pay for!

While I understand your point, I find that in general any more than about 3.5 hours of hard driving a day and people start to get tired and make mistakes. Remember, as the organizer you have to be careful and could be held liable if things go wrong, including if people stay on track too long and don't recognize themselves getting tired. The track waiver only covers the track, if you want coverage as an organizer you have to get your own insurance for the day.

Basically if you have few enough cars for one run group, the smart ones won't be on track all the time. Thus, you may as well take enough drivers for 2 run groups (say 40 people), which cuts your cost in half. If you run from 9-5 with a one hour break for lunch, that gives you 7 hours of track time, or 3.5 hours per group.

Anyway, with lunch included the Kingston motorsports club (ST LAC) normally charges $175 for an event at Shannonville. That's the ballpark you have to aim for if you want this to be successful. If you want to keep the numbers down, look into renting the Fabi layout. From what I remember it's about half the cost of full, and it's a blast. Keeps most of the really fun sections from full.

[n00bMeiSter]

When we go to various tracks for things like OTA, CSCS etc., they don't spend 7 hours on the track. You spend at most 2-3 hours out of the whole 8-hour day on the track. Your car needs time to cool down and rest, and so do you. As far as pictures go, no one is going to want to pay some guy for pictures, when there's lots of members here who would be interested in coming to watch and take pics.
We could just as easily go down to Cayuga on a Friday for $60 and get several hours in.

[n00bMeiSter]

Also, where are you getting this $300 from? Booking Nelson for 20 people for a weekday is $158 each. And booking Long Track for 20 people is $254 each.
And TBH, the smartest thing to do is book Nelson.

[2012speed3]

And what about lunch? Marshals? Water for 20 guys? I've set up 23 track days at various venues over the years and all have gone off without a hitch. There is a lot more to a safe track day than a track rental. There are plenty of other track days that can be had for $150-$200 and I will be carefully selecting a few to participate in myself that being said I've walked away from my $200 before due to bad organisation, just plain idiots on the track.

I've got 9 more spots to fill before I'll book the track and if I get 11 more I'll have a pro instructor available for any participants that want some advice. So far its looking like a good mix of VW's, BMW's Vette's and mustang's.

If anybody is interested post here or PM me and when I have this day booked I'll work on a cheaper day on Nelson or DDC @ Mosport for anybody that decided to pass on this day.

[Lockdown]

Can't commit till there is an actual day set. Too many other
Commitments but I for one can't drive for 7 hours on the track.
3 x 1 hour with a small group is great and alternating groups.

[Punkrockjohn]

I'm interested as well, so are a couple buddies would like to know what dates we are working with though

[Kiyomi]

And what about lunch? Marshals? Water for 20 guys? I've set up 23 track days at various venues over the years and all have gone off without a hitch. There is a lot more to a safe track day than a track rental. There are plenty of other track days that can be had for $150-$200 and I will be carefully selecting a few to participate in myself that being said I've walked away from my $200 before due to bad organisation, just plain idiots on the track.

I've got 9 more spots to fill before I'll book the track and if I get 11 more I'll have a pro instructor available for any participants that want some advice. So far its looking like a good mix of VW's, BMW's Vette's and mustang's.

If anybody is interested post here or PM me and when I have this day booked I'll work on a cheaper day on Nelson or DDC @ Mosport for anybody that decided to pass on this day.

still interested, but instead of a solely tm3 track day, its becoming a regular track day with tm3 members attending which means that 300$ is too expensive for just open lapping. when all is said and done it will be about 350$ after gas. its getting up to the sigma prices but i havent read about any timing devices neither, nor the provided professional pics which are both provided at other events.

in any case, now that were just talking about open lapping and not a sole tm3 day, why not pay the open lapping fee of 90$ all day sunday at tmp, and put 210$ in your pocket for food/drinks/gas. no need to worry about insurance, and as for the idiots, there will always be a bad apple. thats one of the few risks you take when you track. even then, marshals will black flag or pull over those not behaving.
just putting out another option which costs 1/3 of the price and you will have many tm3ers who will be available on the weekend and be able to afford it. sharing the track with maybe 10-20 other cars max on any given sunday.

also, there are many tm3 members who have tracked before who could give ride alongs to help those who have not done it before or wish to learn the track before going out on their own.

[n00bMeiSter]

still interested, but instead of a solely tm3 track day, its becoming a regular track day with tm3 members attending which means that 300$ is too expensive for just open lapping. its getting up to the sigma prices but i havent read about any timing devices neither, nor the provided professional pics which are both provided at other events.


Yeah, this seems more like he wants to throw a track event and make some money off of it. Renting out his own helmets, having a photographer there that people can buy pics from. People can bring their own food, and it would be cheaper. Not to mention there's not a lot of people on this board with track experience, and our cars aren't high performance vehicles, so the long track is really not the greatest choice. Nelson would be the best choice.
At this point it would be easier to have people leave work early on a Friday and we all go down to Cayuga, spend $60 for the road course and $20 for the 1/4 mile, and then no one has to take an entire week day off from work.

Honestly, doing Nelson, on a weekend with 40 people, would be an even better idea. Having two, three, or four groups of cars alternating sessions, would be ideal. With 40 cars, 4 groups of 10; could do 30 minute sessions per group, and each group would get 3 or 4 sessions in. With 40 cars the price would drop to roughly $110 per person. Don't forget, you're asking people to drive two hours out of the city (so four hours round trip) even more for those coming from the west end or further. Add in the cost of fuel for travelling, plus the cost of fuel used on the track and the cost starts to creep up.

And what about a rain date? If it's rainy weather on the day that the track is booked for, then what? I'm not particularly interested in racing in the rain, ruins the fun of it.

[2012speed3]

Yeah, this seems more like he wants to throw a track event and make some money off of it. Renting out his own helmets, having a photographer there that people can buy from. People can bring their own food, and it would be cheaper. Not to mention there's not a lot of people on this board with track experience, and our cars aren't high performance vehicles, so the long track is really not the greatest choice. Nelson would be the best choice.
At this point it would be easier to have people leave work early on a Friday and we all go down to Cayuga, spend $60 for the road course and $20 for the 1/4 mile, and then no one has to take an entire week day off from work.

Honestly, doing Nelson, on a weekend with 40 people, would be an even better idea. Having two, three, or four groups of cars alternating sessions, would be ideal. With 40 cars, 4 groups of 10; could do 30 minute sessions per group, and each group would get 3 or 4 sessions in. With 40 cars the price would drop to roughly $110 per person. Don't forget, you're asking people to drive two hours out of the city (so four hours round trip) even more for those coming from the west end or further. Add in the cost of fuel for travelling, plus the cost of fuel used on the track and the cost starts to creep up.

And what about a rain date? If it's rainy weather on the day that the track is booked for, then what? I'm not particularly interested in racing in the rain, ruins the fun of it.

$5085.00 track rental
$240 Catered lunch for 20 guys
$600 very conservative cost for marshaling
$60 Bottled water, ice etc

Do the math! Make a buck or be lucky to break even?

As for renting my own helmets, well the cost me between $600 and $1200 each and I'm not about to haul 10 or 12 of them to the track to just hand them out.

You gotta pay to play and if for whatever reason this doesn't work for you than it doesn't. By all means go run a $150 day at TMP and enjoy.

As for a rain day, usually unless conditions are really bad you run anyways. I've hit 150mph at Mosport in the rain on 2 wheels and it was a great experience.

[2012speed3]

still interested, but instead of a solely tm3 track day, its becoming a regular track day with tm3 members attending which means that 300$ is too expensive for just open lapping. when all is said and done it will be about 350$ after gas. its getting up to the sigma prices but i havent read about any timing devices neither, nor the provided professional pics which are both provided at other events.

in any case, now that were just talking about open lapping and not a sole tm3 day, why not pay the open lapping fee of 90$ all day sunday at tmp, and put 210$ in your pocket for food/drinks/gas. no need to worry about insurance, and as for the idiots, there will always be a bad apple. thats one of the few risks you take when you track. even then, marshals will black flag or pull over those not behaving.
just putting out another option which costs 1/3 of the price and you will have many tm3ers who will be available on the weekend and be able to afford it. sharing the track with maybe 10-20 other cars max on any given sunday.

also, there are many tm3 members who have tracked before who could give ride alongs to help those who have not done it before or wish to learn the track before going out on their own.

A full day at TMP is $130-$150 not sure where $90 came from? I would have loved for this to be just a TM3 but there clearly isn't enough interest on here for that.

[Fuman]

$300 is way to expensive for Shannonville. $300 can get you a day on Mosport GP (if you can find a deal).
Shannonville Full/Pro track configuration tend to go for around $160 for 9 to 5pm for $160. As others have mentioned, for $300 you'll only have 20 cars or so. However, 1/2 the cars are generally in the pits anyway.
You may want to ask Touge, other Track organizors to see what is a manageable size for Shannonville Full/Pro track.

I would have loved for this to be just a TM3 but there clearly isn't enough interest on here for that.
If its TM3 members with just Mazda/Mazdaspeed3 it might be tight. A number of members have moved on to different cars. As long as its TM3 members, past and present, you may get enough interest.

[Lockdown]

still interested, but instead of a solely tm3 track day, its becoming a regular track day with tm3 members attending which means that 300$ is too expensive for just open lapping. when all is said and done it will be about 350$ after gas. its getting up to the sigma prices but i havent read about any timing devices neither, nor the provided professional pics which are both provided at other events.

in any case, now that were just talking about open lapping and not a sole tm3 day, why not pay the open lapping fee of 90$ all day sunday at tmp, and put 210$ in your pocket for food/drinks/gas. no need to worry about insurance, and as for the idiots, there will always be a bad apple. thats one of the few risks you take when you track. even then, marshals will black flag or pull over those not behaving.
just putting out another option which costs 1/3 of the price and you will have many tm3ers who will be available on the weekend and be able to afford it. sharing the track with maybe 10-20 other cars max on any given sunday.

also, there are many tm3 members who have tracked before who could give ride alongs to help those who have not done it before or wish to learn the track before going out on their own.

+1

[SKYMP3]

A full day at TMP is $130-$150 not sure where $90 came from? I would have loved for this to be just a TM3 but there clearly isn't enough interest on here for that.

$90 is prepaid. $130 is at the track for Togue TMP.


Depends where you are in GTA, gas to Shannonville is $60 minimum 2 way and 1 full tank of gas on the track ($70-75).
That's already $430.

The expenses added up is not for everyone.

[SKYMP3]

3 x 1 hour with a small group is great and alternating groups.

+1

I can't picture myself on the track for the full day (over 5 hours)
I take a 15-20 min rest minimum after each 3-4 laps run. Usually the 4-5 hours run is perfect for me and leave me some energy to drive back home from whereever the track is.

[Lockdown]

I think I'm going to bow out of this early, simply due to organizational concerns and concerns of who else is going to be on the track.

Skill levels of the drivers need to be matched, I don't want to put myself at risk as I do not have track insurance. I'll stick to the events I know.

If this goes off well, I could be in for future events but I think I will pass on the first one.

Sorry if this inconveniences anyone, I just don't trust it yet.

[Lockdown]

2 hours is plenty before switching groups. Anymore than that and it becomes endurance racing and that's something that drivers need to train for. Most people cant drive 4-5 hours straight on the road, and the track is an entirely new animal.
Remember when planning this, you will be dealing with mostly beginners and they need instructions before they wreck themselves and anyone else they are on the track with.

[2012speed3]

No hard feelings, a bunch of friends and I used to do this 3 times a year but in the last 2 years a few of us have gotten married, kids etc... And just haven't had the time or cash to do so. I've got enough interest to get a firm date later this week. I'm not a huge fan of the road coarse at TMP but I do make it out there occasionally for their evening lapping wednesdays and fridays. I've yet to have a car out on bogie but I've rode it a few times and I'd like to set something up there in July. Mosport grand prix course is my favourite locally but I've got a love hate relationship with Moss's corner and haven't been back since it bit me!

[Lockdown]

Cool, I just have too many man hours into the car to be hitting the track with various skill levels.

If you're doing multiple groups, try to divide them into skill levels because first timers (including myself on my first trips to the track) have no idea what they are doing and without instructions will not know where to look for flags or what the signals from the marshals will mean.

I have been on the track before and seen someone forced off the track because a newb didn't know passing rules and forced the other driver off on the straight coming into a turn.

See if you can get some instructions and make them mandatory, even if people have said they have been hundreds of times, just so everyone has the same set of rules, although they don't really change.

I have organized track days before so if you need any help, don't hesitate to PM me and I may be available for help the day of the event as well but that will depend on my schedule, of course.

[2012speed3]

I've been taken out by a beginner myself! Always have a driver meeting, hand out track maps marked with stuff to look out for and rules/passing zone we always either ride along or take beginners out for a few laps to set things straight and as bad as it sounds a big red or yellow X on the back window to let everyone know who's a beginner helps a lot too. Depending on numbers and experience levels I'll break 20-25 cars into 2 or 3 groups.

[Lockdown]

Put the tape on the front too, I always check my rear view as you never know when someone coming up from behind thinks they can pass you when you know you have to slow down for a turn and they take your line away from you.

Will you be using timing devices too?
I'm not sure if those will be included in the cost but I believe it is usually extra but make a great tool for those changing setups (like adjustable suspensions, swapping sway bars, tire swaps, pressure changes etc etc) during breaks.

[Rob23]

$300? haha that is expensive. Or i can just go back to cayuga for evening lapping 5pm - dark for $100.

edit: Evening lapping 5pm till dark is $60 pre registered or $100 at the gate at TMP Cayuga. Which is by far the best value. Also it is flat and surrounded by grass so its a safe track for beginners.

[stevenma188]

Shanny is a WAY better track than both TMP and DDT. Just sucks it's so far away.

[SKYMP3]

Shanny is a WAY better track than both TMP and DDT. Just sucks it's so far away.

Never been to Shannoville, but close to 2.5 hr drive before the track just don't motivate me. I like Cayuga.

[2012speed3]

Shanny is a WAY better track than both TMP and DDT. Just sucks it's so far away.

+1! It's nice that TMP is close however it's a poor excuse of a road coarse.

[2012speed3]

$300? haha that is expensive. Or i can just go back to cayuga for evening lapping 5pm - dark for $100.

edit: Evening lapping 5pm till dark is $60 pre registered or $100 at the gate at TMP Cayuga. Which is by far the best value. Also it is flat and surrounded by grass so its a safe track for beginners.

Safe? Search youtube! off the top of my head there was a Subaru that hit a wall and rolled there!

[2012speed3]

Put the tape on the front too, I always check my rear view as you never know when someone coming up from behind thinks they can pass you when you know you have to slow down for a turn and they take your line away from you.

Will you be using timing devices too?
I'm not sure if those will be included in the cost but I believe it is usually extra but make a great tool for those changing setups (like adjustable suspensions, swapping sway bars, tire swaps, pressure changes etc etc) during breaks.

I've used timing there in the past and intend on doing so again. It really adds to the fun of the day, I like playing with my setup...... even when it goes terribly wrong :chuckle

[Rob23]

Safe? Search youtube! off the top of my head there was a Subaru that hit a wall and rolled there!

I know I've seen that, but he didn't actually hit the wall he hit a hay bail that was poorly placed. You could also mess up your suspension if you go off into the grass in a few places. But compared to other tracks that have hills into / out of corners and more walls to hit, it is safer for sure.

[asyed]

Also, where are you getting this $300 from? Booking Nelson for 20 people for a weekday is $158 each. And booking Long Track for 20 people is $254 each.
And TBH, the smartest thing to do is book Nelson.

+1 have driven on Nelson before and can tell you that it is still a pretty good circuit to drive on. Would I be coming for this event though? Probably not as id rather wait until my moms company hosts another free "Family track day" for doctors and their parents , which happens around August. :P

[condor888000]

I know I've seen that, but he didn't actually hit the wall he hit a hay bail that was poorly placed. You could also mess up your suspension if you go off into the grass in a few places. But compared to other tracks that have hills into / out of corners and more walls to hit, it is safer for sure.

And less interesting.

[standsideways]

Safe? Search youtube! off the top of my head there was a Subaru that hit a wall and rolled there!

i watched that happen lol.

straw bales are not supposed to be used for auto, they are acceptable for bikes, but even then tire walls are the best cheap solution, they just dont have the room for enough tires on the wall there at TMP.

tmp has the least consequence of any road track in ontario ide say.

[Rob23]

And less interesting.

Yes, obviously. This is what makes it safer. That is why I said it is a good track for beginners...