Premium Fuel

[snipe]

Anyone here running on premium fuel? Any difference? Advantages and disadvantages (besides the obvious price disadv.). I\\\'ve been running premium for about 2 weeks now. Same driving habbits, I can\\\'t see the difference in anything.

[bluntman]

You engine doesn\'t need the higher octane just yet. Once you\'ve put on several thousand kilometers and you notice pinging or your engine performance degrade, then try one level higher. You\'re just wasting your money right now.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

i agree with bluntman...if the ecu and/or compression ratio of the engine doesn\'t necessitate 91+ octane, then you\'re just throwing your money away.

[billyfo]

I read some articles said on high mileage car ie over 160,000km, you can switch to higher octane for better response.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by billyfo


I read some articles said on high mileage car ie over 160,000km, you can switch to higher octane for better response.

it\'s not exactly better response. as a car\'s engine puts on the kms, it can develop carbon deposits around the underside of the valves and such. these carbon deposits can create \"hot spots\" that can pre-ignite the fuel/air mixture before the piston reaches the top of its stroke, hence before the spark plug ignites.

the pre-ignition of the fuel/air mixture is akin to the spark plug igniting and the resulting pressure wave will slam into the piston while the piston is coming up. the result of this is knocking and/or pinging (the \'ping\' sound is the pressure wave hitting the piston).

one way to prevent knocking/pinging is to increase the octane of the gas. in the case of gasoline, octane is a measure of the resistance to knock - the higher the octane rating, the \"harder\" it is to ignite the fuel/air mixture. thus, the \"hot spots\" from the carbon deposits may ignite fuel with a 87 octane rating, but may not ignite fuel with a 89+ octane rating.

most modern vehicles include a knock sensor, when knocking/pinging is detected, the ECU will retard the timing to compensate. this results in the feeling of lost performance; which is why switching to a higher octane, at this point, will feel as if the car is giving \"better response\".

for those old enough to remember the phenomenon of \"engine run-on\" from cars back in the day (pre mid-80s i.e. carbureated) well, engine run-on was a result of carbon deposits igniting fuel vapours after the engine was shut off.

cliff\'s notes: keep the engine well tuned, change your oil regularly, don\'t use crappy gas, etc etc and you won\'t have to increase the octane as your car ages. my mom\'s 92 integra runs as strong as the day it left the assembly line and it still takes 87 octane.

[Xenon]

at these prices, I can\'t afford premium fuel anyways :p

[bluntman]

The common misconception when it comes to octane levels is that people tend to believe that the higher the octane the more performance they can get out of the engine.

[bDeE]

At first I was always filling up with premium fuel, then after 3 visits to a gas station I switched to regular, then after 3 more visits to a gas station, i switched back to premium to see if there were any noticeable differances.

I noticed that overall ride quality was better while using regular 87 octane fuel...

Maybe im just imagining things, but i noticed a big difference. The car felt lighter, it responded quicker, and it accelerated faster.


With premium fuel, the car felt really heavy, and the acceleration felt noticebly slow.


But these are just my observations, maybe im on crack, or maybe my car is on crack :P


Anyways, I had a question, what brand of fuel do you guys use?

Are there any recomendations on what brand to use? Or does it not make a difference?


Right now I use beaver and shell....theyre owned by the same company, so I think the gas quality would be the same....

[bluntman]

I always use PetroCan, mainly because I\'m lazy since there are three within spitting distance of my house and also because I have a credit card with them already. However, I have used Sunoco because I like the idea of them putting ethanol in their gasoline (helps burn the fuel more completely, better for the environment) and I get a little bit off of my CAA membership everytime I fill up. Their carwashes are good too since they\'re touchless.

[Dr Butcher]

I pretty much use Shell gas, originally it was because a station was located 1km from where I work and I could time it almost to the hour when gas prices would go up. They then started giving you air miles and a discount of up to $2 on your groceries from Dominion, A&P stores which is a bonus as well.

If I\'m driving my mom\'s car I try to fill it up at Sunoco, with the recent troubles GM cars have had with Petro Canada, Shell, and Esso gas I try to avoid them. My sister has an Oldsmobile Alero, if she doesn\'t fill up with Sunoco gas, her fuel guage won\'t work properly.

[billyfo]

when I had my 1st car, I filled w/ Sunoco cause many people said Sunoco is better, cleaner for the car, then I went to Shell caus Airmile:D , now I stick w/ PetroCan again for the point which is more useful than Airmile.

I might use the wrong wording \"response\" but that I was reading some articles about octane yrs before, bad memory:p . I always stick with the owner manual recommended octane, for me there is no different, only when you drive some highend cars, I sometimes drive my parents 323i and they fill with mid grade, and it is true the car has slower pickup than fill with 91.

[snipe]

I always thought that higher octane would give you a bit more power, but then again I never researched this. Well, since I saw no difference in getting premium I\'m just gonna go back to regular, especially since the prices are so high.

[Nex]

Originally posted by snipe


I always thought that higher octane would give you a bit more power, but then again I never researched this. Well, since I saw no difference in getting premium I\'m just gonna go back to regular, especially since the prices are so high.

Higher octane definitely dosen\'t give you more HP. In fact, in some cars, using premium fuels decreases HP. (ie 98-02 Honda Accord V6)

[billyfo]

here is the link from CanadianDriver web fuel octane (http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/040728.htm)

[Soulcrusher]

Originally posted by billyfo


here is the link from CanadianDriver web fuel octane (http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/040728.htm)

Very good article. I read something similar in the Toronto Star a few weeks back. I originally used premium fuel but after reading the article I changed to regular. I\'ve been keeping track of my mileage. It\'s been pretty consistent. Everytime I refuel, I check to see how many litres were needed to fill up the tank. Then I compared that to the kilometres I drove. Everytime it\'s just been under 10L/100km (9.93 to be exact - 2,177.3 km using 216.248 L).

I like to believe that I drive like an average person. I don\'t floor it, but I don\'t drive like a senior either. Most of it is city driving. I remeber that there\'s another post regarding a fuel additive to improve mileage (Freedom Fuel Additive). Anyone using something similar?

[WickEd M3]

I used to be a sunocco 94 octane fan (had a souped up civic - 11.3 to 1 compression), but when i got the 3, the sunocco gas just doesn\'t cut it. Burns too fast and you get less than decent milage. I find Petro to be the best, since I usually fill up at just under a half with about 286 to 300 on the odometer. I use the cheap stuff, find no difference even with the next higher level. Constant highway driving. Esso is also okay.
I\'m trying a custom modified intake using the existing air box minus the secondary housing. Works okay, more mid to top end pwr.

[dredd2099]

heh
got 11:5:1 compression
needless to say
premium only
:(

[civiclad]

I tried Premium Fuel from Sunoco yesterday (my tank was almost empty and the Sunoco closest to my office only had Premium fuel available ...how convenient) and have not noticed any difference in performance

[MZ3_GS]

I don\'t like shell gas because it seems to have a high sulfur content (I smell it when I push the car past 4000 RPM)

Sunoco seems to be the best, I don\'t use Esso Either.

I have PetroCAN in the tank right now seems fine.;)

[wtom]

Looking at anyone with poll-creation access...

I smell a poll for preferred gas stations... :)

I personally use Shell but lately I\'ve heard from two friends and now the above post that Shell has been known to clog up the fuel line/injector... rare but possible. :(

[Snipes]

I tend to stick with Sunoco as much as possible. That was mainly for the CAA but I don\'t need that anymore with a new car so I may end up using Petro most of the time for their points.

[Xenon]

I use Petro Can because they just happen to be the gas station with the cheapest fuel.

[Newlook]

Originally posted by Xenon


I use Petro Can because they just happen to be the gas station with the cheapest fuel.

Cheapest in quality or cheapest in price? :D

Isn\'t Petro Can is the one to lead price hike? They would put up 81.9 first before other stations do, then lower the price down because no one follows...

[Xenon]

cheapest price. There are 2 petro cans that I usually use...

One right by the zoo, usually 65.5 on Mondays and wednesdays, sometimes fridays, corner of Meadowvale and Sheppard.

The other one is on the service road between Dixie and Cawthra, south side of the QEW. Full Serve and they are usually cheap, mainly because they are kind of inacessable. It\'s a little west of the Dixie Outlet Mall.

[teambedlam]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS I don\'t like shell gas because it seems to have a high sulfur content (I smell it when I push the car past 4000 RPM

So that is what that smell is. I was wondering what that was. Guess i\'ll stick to Sunoco only.

[Xenon]

I read a report put out by EnviroCan about a year ago. Gasoline, cleanest to least clean are as follows:

(Cleanest)
Sunoco
Shell
Petro-Canada
Pioneer
Imperial Oil (Husky, Esso, Cdn. Tire)
(Least Clean)

That smell may not be sulpher, but one of the additives in the gas? Shell gas has also been known to screw up GM fuel guages. I haven\'t heard anything about Ford or Mazda.

In regards to gas prices, you people may like http://www.torontogasprices.com Very useful.

[majic]

well I use esso for the accord for now.. (sorry no mazda 3 yet) speedpass is what makes it a very easy choice. points and convenience!

may not be the BEST gas but it\'s usually the cheapest in the area (although sunoco sometimes has the same price)

it\'s weird tho.. accord is rated for 9.6/6.5 (city/hwy) and i would say it\'s 75% hwy and we get about 8.5-9L/100 do they drive it at 60km/h for the hwy test??? I usually set cruise b/w 110 and 120.. then again that 25% city driving turns into pretty quick starts off the lights and such ;)

[wtom]

Originally posted by majic


well I use esso for the accord for now.. (sorry no mazda 3 yet) speedpass is what makes it a very easy choice. points and convenience!


I go to Shell because of their easyPay tag. Got my AirMiles card on it as well as AirMiles AmEx credit card... points there... and quite the convenience also although there\'s a PetroCan right across from it.

[majic]

there\'s no shell close to my house.. just 2 essos, a sunoco and petro cans.. do you get 1mile for every 20 bux spent thx to easy pay and THEN 1 more on each 20 b/c you charge it all to amex? does it roll over from fill to fill? say you fill up 10bux (no airmile) and fill again for 10 bux then do you get that 1 airmile (i know you will on AMEX but do you on easy pay? or is it tabulated at month\'s end or something?)

i wish sunoco had a speed/easy pass b/c then it would be no brainer.. does anyone have any concrete proof (article or such) about the gasoline quality at various distributors?

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Source: FOE (Friends of the Earth) Canada reprinted here (http://www.exn.ca/Stories/2000/05/08/54.asp)

Here\'s that complete list from Environment Canada:


Data received by FOE on 1997-1998 smog season
regular-grade gasoline, by region

Ontario

Company Sulphur content (parts per million)
1998 (summer) 1998 (spring)

Imperial Oil-Sarnia 810 840
Imperial Oil-Dartmouth 740 550
Shell Canada-Sarnia 700 300
Petro-Canada-Oakville 700 500
Sunoco-Sarnia 290 280

The rest of the provinces can be found in that link above. As shown, Imperial Oil (Esso) has the worst sulphur content out of all the Ontario refineries. The limit being 1000 ppm, Esso skates under it and still maintains legality.

Sunoco/Suncor (includes Pioneer stations) has the lowest, mainly because of their use of ethanol. However, ethanol reduces fuel economy and you will notice that you won\'t get as many KMs out of a tank of Sunoco vs. the others.

More info here:

Imperial Oil\'s High-Sulphur Gasoline Triggers Boycott Call (http://www.life.ca/nl/73/gas.html)

CBC News: Esso gas the dirtiest in Canada: report (http://cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/2000/04/19/Consumers/essogas000419)

FOE Canada\'s Esso Boycott (http://www.foecanada.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=32 &limit=1&limitstart=3)

Interesting that the Canadian Federal government regulations, passed in 1999, require the average annual sulphur content gasoline fuel to be reduced to 150 ppm by July of this year and 30 ppm by 2005... more (http://www.foecanada.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=43&Itemid=2)

[majic]

ok.. so i looked into this matter and here are the results.. first of all.. i dunno why i didn\'t even consider looking at the intranet page WHERE I WORK!! lol.. but check out this link (http://www.ene.gov.on.ca/envision/air/sig/2004.htm)

it looks like esso isn\'t as bad as believed and everyone is slowly conforming to the norm (30ppm by jan 1 2005) so there you have it - all gasoline equal :D It also looks like premium has a lower sulphur content accross the board (with minor exceptions) but then again mazda3 runs best on regular

then again.. they might provide samples of their best gasoline and such but that would mean huge ass lawsuits.. as always YMMV