Block heater

[FLIPDADY]

If anyone is interested at all they are now available.

[Snipes]

How much?

[FLIPDADY]

Let me clarify the fitment of the block heater. It is only available for the 2.3 engine. The part is $42.50 for the block heater less the club discount of course.;) The labor to install it is $127.50.

[dinu01]

Any word on 2.0 heaters?

[RedRaptor]

Forgive my stupidity but what exactly does a block heater do? Is it for the passengers? Why would one need it?

[david3]

You plug it in to an electrical outlet and it heats the engine block in the winter so it\'ll start easier/keep oil from getting too syrup like and stuff.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

out west of ontario and in colder climates north, you\'ll find an outlet at every parking spot at malls and outdoor parking lots.

nothing like the first start on a -50C morning :D

[majic]

can you install it yourself?

i really hate when labour costs more than a part.. :(

[ZoomZoom Girl]

Stupid question, but can I use a car starter if my block heater is plugged in? We\'re starting to hit the deep freeze here in Northeastern Ontario so I\'ll be plugging most nights (using a timer so it just goes off 2 hours before I leave for work). I like to use my starter (5 minutes or so) to get some of the cold/humidity out of the car before I get in but wonder if it\'s ok to do so with the block heater working?

[bluntman]

Sure can.

[ZoomZoom Girl]

Wow, that was fast! Thanks for the info...

[FLIPDADY]

The 2.0 block heater is now available.

[MZ3_GS]

I think you have to plug in the car once you park it...check the manual though.

[wongpres]

I just plug it in 1.5hrs-2hrs before starting the car. Works great - I just read the thread titled \'Extreme cold\' and it\'s much different with the block heater. The first start after being plugged is like the first start of the day in 20-degree weather (no harshness at all). I do no warm-up at all and the heater is hot within 2 minutes (wouldn\'t help much with the tranny though).

However, I can\'t plug it in at work. So whenever I leave work, I typically warm-up 3 minutes and it takes about 10 minutes for the heater to get warm/hot. And the start itself is much harsher than with the block heater.

I use the block heater when its colder than -10, so I\'ve used it 3 times in the past week.

[ZoomZoom Girl]

..how exactly can I verify that my block heater actually works? My car starts fine with or without plugging. On Sunday, with temps below -40, I had the car plugged for 3 hours before starting and it ran very stiffly (steering, suspension, etc.). So my question is how can we check to ensure that the block heater is fully operational?

[majic]

wouldn\'t the engine temp reach halfway point b/w C and H much faster?

the overall stiffness you experience is b/c the block heater directly warms up the engine and not other components

[ZoomZoom Girl]

Thank you once again wise one...;) I haven\'t really paid attention to how fast the water temp gets up to its maximum having plugged in the block heater versus not. Really would depend upon temperature so this would be difficult to accurately assess. I was wondering if there is some more direct way to make sure that my block heater actually works? Some guy on another forum found that his wasn\'t properly connected but, not being mechanically inclined, I don\'t really want to start taking things apart. I just want to KNOW that it is working....any ideas?

[majic]

sorry.. i wasn\'t trying to be a smart ass or anything :(

but it\'s been a really sloooow day here.. and i just wanted to give you some \'simple-stuff-to-do-to-check-if-block-heater-warms-up-the-car\'

i haven\'t even seen a block heater but i did hear that it takes about 5-6hrs to install one b/c of its placement within the engine bay and all.. sorry i\'ll butt out for this topic then..

[ZoomZoom Girl]

Hello again Majic! I was being quite complimentary, not sarcastic, so kudos to you! Being very, um, non-mechanically inclined, I\'m endlessly impressed by those of you who come up with answers and solutions so easily. Found out how to heat my car, why it snows inside my car, etc. from these forums so it has been very educational. A few posters are particularly \"wise\" (i.e. seems to be no limit to the depth of your car knowledge) so I really appreciate all your advice....

[majic]

awwwww.. thanks :D *blush again* ;)

well i know that myself RedRaptor, MajesticBlueN as well as i think AfterBurner are from an engineering background. We are these creatures that if they do not know the answer, will try to research it and convert the techno speak into common terms - this is how we\'ve been brainwashed at UT ;)

i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we play with these $20K+ toys and we want the best for them and we want to know how to take care of them in the best way possible.

anwyay.. i think GOOGLE is the body of knowledge with \"no limit\"

so thank google ;) and this place is for information sharing so this way we all can be aware of why things happen the way they happen and solutions to certain problems...

cheers.. and merry christmas (or happy holidays ;) and christmaka and festivus and all that)

so back to the block heater.. damn it got hot here all of a sudden ;)

[ZoomZoom Girl]

Well, I\'m a scientist myself (Aquatic Invertebrate Taxonomist... if you have time on your hands you can try Googling that one :D ) so can relate to the high level of \"need to know\". Especially when it starts snowing inside my car, my level of curiosity hits the roof! So, I like to make sure things actually work as they are supposed to work and tend not to just take someone\'s word for it (especially my Mazda dealer...long story). Well, my car starts easily so I should be happy....ok, the scientist in me is thinking of ways to test that darn block heater! Thanks again for your input. The \"wise ones\" I mentioned before are all the ones you listed so hooray for the engineers on the board! If you ever need invertebrates in water identified, I\'m your gal... :p Have a great day.

[wongpres]

Part of my background is in experimental science and the best way to test something is simple - perform action with independent variable, and then do it again in the same scenario without the independent variable.

In regards to the block heater it\'s simple. Plug it in one night and don\'t plug it in another night. As I wrote in my last post, there\'s a big difference when its plugged in - the first startup with block has much less harshness (it\'s like the first startup in the summer). Also, observe the rev behaviour once it starts up - the revs are higher and come down much slower when it\'s not plugged in (mine\'s an auto).

[ZoomZoom Girl]

Problem is that I can only use the block heater at home (no plug in at work) and use my car starter from inside the house to actually get the car going. So, I\'m not actually IN the car upon start up, after using the block heater, to watch the revs. However, I will take your advice and try this on mornings with similar predicted temps to hear/watch how the car reacts in either case. Thanks for your input! Oh, and mine is an automatic too so I should see similar results to yours...


Originally posted by wongpres

In regards to the block heater it\'s simple. Plug it in one night and don\'t plug it in another night. As I wrote in my last post, there\'s a big difference when its plugged in - the first startup with block has much less harshness (it\'s like the first startup in the summer). Also, observe the rev behaviour once it starts up - the revs are higher and come down much slower when it\'s not plugged in (mine\'s an auto).

[MZ3_GS]

I am an engineer or will be...hopefully.
You can verify that you heater works by:

1) Draining your coolant to see if it is warm.
2) Seeing if you get heat right away.

Stock heaters only warm the coolant. The heater to heat inside of you car is from the Coolant in the engine. Coolant doesn\'t flow in the engine until it reaches a certain temp where the thermostat opens to allow coolant flow. Thus why you don\'t get heat when the car is cold, but you should get heat right away or pretty soon if you have a engine block heater.

Block heaters are a quick install...remove frost plug. Place Heater in, wire it up replace lost coolant.

Block heaters will only heat coolant, so the steering will be stiff...because the hydraulic fluid is viscousous and probably on a really cold day the battery isn\'t at full temp.

I don\'t recommend idling your car for a long period of time in the winter, it can be determental to the battery. With Heat on full, defroster on radio on etc etc...your battery can be discharged rather quickly.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS

I don\'t recommend idling your car for a long period of time in the winter, it can be determental to the battery. With Heat on full, defroster on radio on etc etc...your battery can be discharged rather quickly.

not detrimental to the battery but the alternator. your alternator is what powers the electricals in the car while the engine is running (off topic, but this is why that \"voltage stabilizer\" that attaches to the battery and costs $200 does nothing...zip zero zilch)

if your alternator were to die, then your battery will be discharged rather quickly.

[MZ3_GS]

An alternator is rated to a certain amperage. That amperage is enough to provide a constant charge your electrical system at a certain RPM. You idle, power is being drawn from the battery.

You can throw a low battery voltage light just by idling.

[majic]

quote from howstuffworks.com (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question324.htm)


Like all batteries, a car\'s 12-volt battery would eventually go dead if it were not recharged, so your car has a built-in recharging system. Most cars have an alternator, along with a voltage regulator, that keeps the battery charged and also provides electricity to the vehicle when the engine is running. A typical alternator can put out between 500 and 1,000 watts when necessary.

Because your car is so dependent on the battery, all cars have a battery light on the dashboard that is designed to warn you if the recharging system fails. A simple circuit looks at the voltage that the alternator is producing, and turns the battery light on if it is low. The battery light indicates a battery charging problem. If the battery light comes on and stays on while you are driving, the most common cause is a broken alternator belt. Total failure of the alternator is another possibility.

quote from wikipedia.com (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator)


Alternators are used in automobiles to charge the battery and to power all the car\'s electric systems when its engine is running.

so to sum it up..
when engine is running (at least 750RPM on our cars) the alternator is doing it\'s thing - providing electricity to the whole system.

our alternator is rated at 12V - 90A (wow.. a lot of current)
our battery is rated at 12V - 55AH/5H (GT model)

which means that the alternator can put out 90Amps of current which is over 8x more than the battery (11A) which would make sense b/c id the battery is dead it needs to charge it AND supply electricity to the system. The car battery is there kind of as \'back up\' for when teh engine isn\'t running (alarm, power locks, radio with key in accessory position, etc etc)

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS


An alternator is rated to a certain amperage. That amperage is enough to provide a constant charge your electrical system at a certain RPM. You idle, power is being drawn from the battery.

You can throw a low battery voltage light just by idling.

it has been done before...pull a battery on an idling car, you will see that it continues to run.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by majic


quote from howstuffworks.com (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question324.htm)


Like all batteries, a car\'s 12-volt battery would eventually go dead if it were not recharged, so your car has a built-in recharging system. Most cars have an alternator, along with a voltage regulator, that keeps the battery charged and also provides electricity to the vehicle when the engine is running. A typical alternator can put out between 500 and 1,000 watts when necessary.

Because your car is so dependent on the battery, all cars have a battery light on the dashboard that is designed to warn you if the recharging system fails. A simple circuit looks at the voltage that the alternator is producing, and turns the battery light on if it is low. The battery light indicates a battery charging problem. If the battery light comes on and stays on while you are driving, the most common cause is a broken alternator belt. Total failure of the alternator is another possibility.

quote from wikipedia.com (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator)


Alternators are used in automobiles to charge the battery and to power all the car\'s electric systems when its engine is running.

so to sum it up..
when engine is running (at least 750RPM on our cars) the alternator is doing it\'s thing - providing electricity to the whole system.

our alternator is rated at 12V - 90A (wow.. a lot of current)
our battery is rated at 12V - 55AH/5H (GT model)

which means that the alternator can put out 90Amps of current which is over 8x more than the battery (11A) which would make sense b/c id the battery is dead it needs to charge it AND supply electricity to the system. The car battery is there kind of as \'back up\' for when teh engine isn\'t running (alarm, power locks, radio with key in accessory position, etc etc)

thank you

[majic]

Originally posted by MajesticBlueN

thank you

:D :D ERTW :D :D

[ZoomZoom Girl]

Oh oh....the engineers have highjacked this thread! Tried (really I did) following along on the discussion but I\'ll leave the technical talk to more capable hands....block heater should cause my temp to go up faster vs. not using one. Bingo!

[bluntman]

Great how many engineers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

[ZoomZoom Girl]

:D no comment....

[majic]

Originally posted by bluntman


Great how many engineers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Q: How many Microsoft engineers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None. Bill Gates will just redefine Darkness (TM) to be the new industry standard.

Q: How many aerospace engineers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None. It doesn\'t take a rocket scientist, you know.

Q: How many hardware engineers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None. \"We\'ll fix it in software.\"

Q: How many software engineers does it take to change a light bulb?
A1: None. It\'s a hardware problem.
A2: One, but if he changes it, the whole building will probably fall down.
A3: Two. One always leaves in the middle of the project.
A4: Four. One to design the change, one to implement it, one to document it, and one to maintain it afterwards.

Q: How many IBM engineers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: None. They just let Marketing explain that \"Dead Bulb\" is a feature.

Q: How many engineers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: None. The real engineers use LEDs ;)

[MZ3_GS]

Originally posted by majic


quote from howstuffworks.com (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question324.htm)


Like all batteries, a car\'s 12-volt battery would eventually go dead if it were not recharged, so your car has a built-in recharging system. Most cars have an alternator, along with a voltage regulator, that keeps the battery charged and also provides electricity to the vehicle when the engine is running. A typical alternator can put out between 500 and 1,000 watts when necessary.

Because your car is so dependent on the battery, all cars have a battery light on the dashboard that is designed to warn you if the recharging system fails. A simple circuit looks at the voltage that the alternator is producing, and turns the battery light on if it is low. The battery light indicates a battery charging problem. If the battery light comes on and stays on while you are driving, the most common cause is a broken alternator belt. Total failure of the alternator is another possibility.

quote from wikipedia.com (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator)


Alternators are used in automobiles to charge the battery and to power all the car\'s electric systems when its engine is running.

so to sum it up..
when engine is running (at least 750RPM on our cars) the alternator is doing it\'s thing - providing electricity to the whole system.

our alternator is rated at 12V - 90A (wow.. a lot of current)
our battery is rated at 12V - 55AH/5H (GT model)

which means that the alternator can put out 90Amps of current which is over 8x more than the battery (11A) which would make sense b/c id the battery is dead it needs to charge it AND supply electricity to the system. The car battery is there kind of as \'back up\' for when teh engine isn\'t running (alarm, power locks, radio with key in accessory position, etc etc)

You won\'t get 90As at idle. I said the battery would die if you idle your car and use every accessory. At idling your battery will not be charged sufficiently. Why do you think you\'re told to drive the car for a while if the battery has be completely discharged.

A battery rated 55AH/without a charge from the alternator it would die in less than 1 hour.

As for the battery\'s maxium current draw I have no idea where you pulled that number out of. A perfect voltage source can provide infinite current the battery isn\'t perfect but it can draw more than 11 Amps at 12volts.

Heres my proof:
Each head light in your car is 55Watts
Tail Lights are about 30 watts, so just by turning on your lights your using 170watts of power. You seem smart enough to be able to figure out how many amperes that is.
And you DON\"T Need to start the car to turn on the lights do we now.

The battery is capable of drawing more than 100AMPs don\'t believe me stick a metal rod across the terminals and tell me how it feels.

[MZ3_GS]

How many engineers does it take to figure out that a car battery draws more than 11Amps?:sarc

[MZ3_GS]

Originally posted by MajesticBlueN



Originally posted by MZ3_GS


An alternator is rated to a certain amperage. That amperage is enough to provide a constant charge your electrical system at a certain RPM. You idle, power is being drawn from the battery.

You can throw a low battery voltage light just by idling.

it has been done before...pull a battery on an idling car, you will see that it continues to run.

I didn\'t not argue this matter, nor is my post relating to it. I simply said that the battery can become discharged when running a large amount of accessories when your car is idling.

However you can demonstrate this at the next meet if you feel confident. I\'m not sure of the answer so I won\'t speculate.;)

[bluntman]

Originally posted by bluntman


Great how many engineers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

A: None, none of them ever get around to doing it because they are always thinking of a better solution, hence...


Originally posted by majic

Q: How many engineers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: None. The real engineers use LEDs ;)

:p

[ZoomZoom Girl]

Oh oh...staying off this board today since this may turn into a \"poo\" thread due to my \"engineer\" comment! At least some engineers (seem to) have a sense of humor! ;)

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS

I don\'t recommend idling your car for a long period of time in the winter, it can be determental to the battery. With Heat on full, defroster on radio on etc etc...your battery can be discharged rather quickly.

Originally posted by MajesticBlueN

not detrimental to the battery but the alternator. your alternator is what powers the electricals in the car while the engine is running (off topic, but this is why that \"voltage stabilizer\" that attaches to the battery and costs $200 does nothing...zip zero zilch)

if your alternator were to die, then your battery will be discharged rather quickly.


Originally posted by MZ3_GS

Originally posted by MajesticBlueN



Originally posted by MZ3_GS


An alternator is rated to a certain amperage. That amperage is enough to provide a constant charge your electrical system at a certain RPM. You idle, power is being drawn from the battery.

You can throw a low battery voltage light just by idling.

it has been done before...pull a battery on an idling car, you will see that it continues to run.

I didn\'t not argue this matter, nor is my post relating to it. I simply said that the battery can become discharged when running a large amount of accessories when your car is idling.

However you can demonstrate this at the next meet if you feel confident. I\'m not sure of the answer so I won\'t speculate.;)

you stated that idling with a lot of accessories on can be detrimental to the battery.

i stated that it is detrimental to the alternator moreso than the battery.

your comment afterwards was that you can throw a low battery light by idling.

it was stated that the low battery light is a function of the output voltage of the alternator.

IF your battery is discharging while you are idling with accessories on, 9 times out of 10 you have a problem with the alternator not supplying between 14.4 and 14.7V.

i don\'t have to demonstrate it for anyone...a friend and i did it at a scrap yard when the car came in and we had to remove parts from it.

[MZ3_GS]

The amount of power a alternator can generate is related to the radian frequency of rotation. There is a minimum frequency that the generator must spin to generate ANY power. There is also a minimum frequency that the generator must to to generate its maximum output.

At idle it is not generating any where near maximum power. Thus if your rate of power consumption of all the accessories running in your car is greater than the power produced your battery becomes discharged. Thus the battery low voltage light comes on.

[bluntman]

Originally posted by ZoomZoom Girl


Oh oh...staying off this board today since this may turn into a \"poo\" thread due to my \"engineer\" comment! At least some engineers (seem to) have a sense of humor! ;)

Too late!

Merry Christmas everybody!!!

http://www.rocpoint.com/drawing/1108.jpg

[MZ3_GS]

I cannot believe they still make new episodes of that show. :p

[majic]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS
You won\'t get 90As at idle.


I never said you would. it\'s the max rating anyway and that\'s +/- few %


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
I said the battery would die if you idle your car and use every accessory. At idling your battery will not be charged sufficiently. Why do you think you\'re told to drive the car for a while if the battery has be completely discharged.

how many times do we need to re-iterate this? when the engine is running (idle or not) all the power comes from the alternator.

I bet you\'re thinking GENERATORS that need to be geared DOWN b/c they cannot take the abuse that ALTERNATORS can. generators run at 2500rpm max .. alternators run at about 8000rpm.. it will vary.. anwyay, the fact is that the alternators provide plenty of current at idle/driving conditions. source (http://members.1stconnect.com/anozira/SiteTops/energy/Alternator/alternator.htm)

i dare you - leave your car idling till it runs out of gas. turn all teh lights on, every single electrical unit. i BET you it will run out of gas b4 it turns off due to lack of electrical charge in the system.


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
A battery rated 55AH/without a charge from the alternator it would die in less than 1 hour.

I never disputed that, i just provided the specs from the manual 55AH is the battery\'s capacity.


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
As for the battery\'s maxium current draw I have no idea where you pulled that number out of. A perfect voltage source can provide infinite current the battery isn\'t perfect but it can draw more than 11 Amps at 12volts.

you are right..
V=voltage, I=current, R=resistance(load)
V=IR -> I = V/R
I -> infinity ONLY IF R=0
this would imply what you\'re alluding in the next point.. this will occur only when you SHORT OUT THE CIRCUIT (connect the -ve to the +ve with a wire/wrench) assuming infinitely small resistance


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
The battery is capable of drawing more than 100AMPs don\'t believe me stick a metal rod across the terminals and tell me how it feels.

see above

[majic]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS


The amount of power a alternator can generate is related to the radian frequency of rotation. There is a minimum frequency that the generator must spin to generate ANY power. There is also a minimum frequency that the generator must to to generate its maximum output.

At idle it is not generating any where near maximum power. Thus if your rate of power consumption of all the accessories running in your car is greater than the power produced your battery becomes discharged. Thus the battery low voltage light comes on.

you must be in first year taking dynamics or second year taking fields and waves (or E&M).. in any case as you point out for a GENERATOR



There is a minimum frequency that the generator must spin to generate ANY power. There is also a minimum frequency that the generator must to to generate its maximum output.

alternators are way more efficent and are build better(differnetly).. check out the source in my last post. i would suggest to read your books again or u might be retaking one of those courses.. and we know it happens all the time ;)

[MZ3_GS]

I have run the car the to point where the battery light comes on. And i fixed it by revving the engine. Mind you this was an american car too, not some japanese car with a ***** 90AMP alternator.

Go pull up a specs on an alternator. It will not be enough for max draw for running the acessories on the car.
I completely disagree with you that the alternator provides all the power for the car.

[majic]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS
I have run the car the to point where the battery light comes on. And i fixed it by revving the engine.
battery light came on b/c it was cold or the battery itself had a deffective cell that was noted only at high loads..

revving it just sped up the charging process, if you left it at idle it would still charge it but slower.. the alternator provides teh electricity to the sysstem as well as charge the battery so it\'s put under a heavy load with all electronics on.


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
Mind you this was an american car too, not some japanese car with a ***** 90AMP alternator.


you should buy an american car then.. what are you doing with a mazda?


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
Go pull up a specs on an alternator. It will not be enough for max draw for running the acessories on the car.
I completely disagree with you that the alternator provides all the power for the car.

i did.. 90A 12V

P=Power I=current V=Voltage
P=VI -> P = 90x12 = 1080W


MajesticBlueN: if you\'re running more than 1kW of accessories on the stock elec system, you\'ve got other issues ;)

dude.. stop posting crap.. reply if you have something to say that\'s worth reading.. so i guess i won\'t be hearing from you on this matter. merry christmas

[MZ3_GS]

I\'m not posting crap if your blind to the fact that the alternator works like this:

http://www.boatelectric.com/images/95dimensioncurves.jpg

Where output current is a function of RPM I don\'t know what to say.
Revving the engine provided more current, thus ur are right it charged the battery faster.

BTW:
My battery wasn\'t bad, the car was fairly new, I was stuck in traffic and it just happens so I was using every power acessory in the car. and If i needed a High output alternator I\'d get one built, but I don\'t need one because I don\'t make it a habit to idle.:p

You still have not provided factual evidence that the alternator provides more than enough current to run all the accessories at idle. I breifely glanced at your \"source\" page and even states there that at 2000RPM an output current of 15A is achieved.

[MZ3_GS]

Your 1080Watts of power generation is great, if your alternator is turning that fast to produce 90Amps of current.

But it doesn\'t while you are standing still. IT JUST DOESN\"T.

You\'re telling me that your alternator can provide enough power to power every accessory in your car at idle. So first tell me how much current the alternator makes at idle.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS


Your 1080Watts of power generation is great, if your alternator is turning that fast to produce 90Amps of current.

But it doesn\'t while you are standing still. IT JUST DOESN\"T.


we know that, which is why idling with a lot of accessories on is detrimental to the alternator and not the battery.

which is how this whole thing with alternator vs. battery got started.

[MZ3_GS]

Ok thats true to an extent, but the battery then provides the power.
So does your battery not discharge then? Thus the light comes on?
And if you shut off your car at that point theres a good chance it won\'t turn over next time?

I\'m done now I\'m gonna rice out my Civic in NFSU2:sarc

[majic]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS


I\'m not posting crap if your blind to the fact that the alternator works like this:

http://www.boatelectric.com/images/95dimensioncurves.jpg

Where output current is a function of RPM I don\'t know what to say.
Revving the engine provided more current, thus ur are right it charged the battery faster.

BTW:
My battery wasn\'t bad, the car was fairly new, I was stuck in traffic and it just happens so I was using every power acessory in the car. and If i needed a High output alternator I\'d get one built, but I don\'t need one because I don\'t make it a habit to idle.:p

You still have not provided factual evidence that the alternator provides more than enough current to run all the accessories at idle. I breifely glanced at your \"source\" page and even states there that at 2000RPM an output current of 15A is achieved.

d00de.. READ my posts.. and then read YOUR posts..

look at the graph..
FACT: @ 2K RPM YOUR alternator produces 80A (red line)
FACT: alternators are geared UP (usually 3:1 ratio)
FACT: to obtain 2000 RPM ON ALTERNATOR, the engine must do roughly 700RPM
FACT: this is WHY the idling rpms are 700+

you have 5speed? well i do.. put it in first.. slowly release clutch, the lights will dim why? RPMs go down.. WHY? b/c there\'s friction b/w clutch plate and flywheel - this slows engine down and the alternator slows down 3x as fast!!! the battery does not \'compensate\' for the dimming lights b/c the system figures.. hey.. engine is running and the alternator is running so all juice is coming from there..

how many more FACTS do you need? you can\'t just come up with your own opinions man.. opinions are for philosophers and those in fashion business.. here u\'r dealing with physics and other sciences.. LAWS, theorems and a bunch of equations.. sorry it\'s binary.. right or wrong.. u might be in the wrong field if you think otherwise.. (unless you like the ternary system)

[majic]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS
Ok thats true to an extent, but the battery then provides the power.

NO. battery provides power when the engine is NOT running


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
So does your battery not discharge then? Thus the light comes on?

Battery discharges when the engine is NOT running. Light comes on when the alternator cannot maintain a 14.4V (ideal for recharging the 12V battery) This tells you.. \"hey stupid.. alternator might be dead or dying.. get to a shop asap b4 your battery fully discharges\"


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
And if you shut off your car at that point theres a good chance it won\'t turn over next time?

potentially (if it\'s really cold or if it\'s been sitting there for a while - leakage current). so when u see the light come on.. go to a shop!


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
I\'m done now I\'m gonna rice out my Civic in NFSU2:sarc
make sure you put a huge battery in there.. better yet 2..

civic? that ain\'t an american car.. man.. u want to lose power when you idle before you drag? :sarc

[MZ3_GS]

That alternator doesn\'t represent th m3 alternator it has a max current rating of ~ 160A, so you would NOT get 80A at 2000RPM in the Mazda.

Anyways point is. Current Draw of accessories > Current Supplied by Alt.
Power will be taken from the battery. So then like any other battery it will become discharged.

There are more than just one problem that can make a battery light appear. Clearly in my case the alternator was fine because it drove fine for the rest of the time I had it.

You\'re right about the fact that the ratio of engine speed to alternator speed. So if you generalize that curve and say max current is 90A as the case for the Mazda then at idle, engine rpm or 700, you get 40A.

Turn on your head lights, radio, heater with fan all the way up, defroster heated seats, those with customized stereos your drawing more than 40Amps. That power is coming from the battery.

[FLIPDADY]

Someone let this thread die please!

[bubba1983]

cluck cluck cluck...my penis is bigger than yours...bla bla cluck cluck...your like 2 old hen\'s.....give it a rest!

[majic]

Originally posted by bubba1983


cluck cluck cluck...my penis is bigger than yours...bla bla cluck cluck...your like 2 old hen\'s.....give it a rest!

d00de.. when you have nothing of value to say just SHUT UP!

we weren\'t comparing dicks (or or aftermarket car parts for that matter) MajesticBlueN and I were just providing TM3 members with correct info while MZ3_GS was disagreeing with us. I am sick of repeating myself and fighting.. so i stopped, you as a TM3 reader can decide for yourself what\'s true and what\'s not. i really have nothing to gain from telling you how it is and trying to covince you. you do as you please.. oh yah.. have a merry ****ing xmas

[teambedlam]

Getting this thread back on the original topic of Block heaters.......

Up here in Ottawa my block heater is better then gold right about now. It goes down to -20 overnight and i don\'t have indoor parking up here. It\'s so cold my bottle of eyeglass cleaner froze solid.

And you think Toronto got it bad with ice. this whole town is a skating rink. The RSA\'s are doing well. That is as long as i start in 2nd gear.

[Xenon]

Originally posted by teambedlam

The RSA\'s are doing well. That is as long as i start in 2nd gear.



OK... I have been doing a lot of RS-A bashing lately, but I will face up. Yes, I agree if the car is cautiously piloted, the RS-A\'s do well at what they are suppsed to do.

However (and I know no one has argued this, I\'m simply stating a point) I got winter tires simply because the RS-A\'s did not meet MY standards for grip in snow.

[bubba1983]

Originally posted by majic



Originally posted by bubba1983


cluck cluck cluck...my penis is bigger than yours...bla bla cluck cluck...your like 2 old hen\'s.....give it a rest!

d00de.. when you have nothing of value to say just SHUT UP!

we weren\'t comparing dicks (or or aftermarket car parts for that matter) MajesticBlueN and I were just providing TM3 members with correct info while MZ3_GS was disagreeing with us. I am sick of repeating myself and fighting.. so i stopped, you as a TM3 reader can decide for yourself what\'s true and what\'s not. i really have nothing to gain from telling you how it is and trying to covince you. you do as you please.. oh yah.. have a merry ****ing xmas

wahhh wahhh....take a pill....*rolls eyes*

[teambedlam]

Originally posted by Xenon I got winter tires simply because the RS-A\'s did not meet MY standards for grip in snow.

I agree that i would feel way safer with Winters on. However i have been driving for 15 winters with all season tires. Mind you the first 5 were all seasons on a 4WD Subaru.

[cyber]

Trying to stay on topic with block heaters...again...LOL

I just got mine installed yesterday. Since the temp today is about 12 degeres, I guess I won\'t be using it until this weekend. Anyways, I got it installed at Mazda of Brampton and the total price with tax came to $143. Unfortunately because I am still fairly new to the Mazda 3 world I don\'t have access to the discounts. But I did find this somewhat a deal. I know how valuable these block heater are (since I had one before) and would have paid twice that much for one.

The break down:
The part was $42 and to install, 1 hour of labour.

[Airman Jack]

the block heaters work fantastically well, as some of you know I\'ve moved to Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan to continue my military flight training. It\'s fricking COLD here! We\'ve had a cold snap and it\'s hit -50C with the windchill on a regular basis. The car cranks over just as if it were +20C. When I was driving here, I spent a night in North Dakota and it went down to about -10C there, and the car complained a helluva lot more when I started her up the next morning!