Hand brake...

[wtom]

Hey all, since my last car didn\'t have a \"hand\" brake (it had a that same brake but it was down in the foot well), I don\'t know how far I should be pulling up on the hand brake in the 3.

I usually pull up all the way (usually stopping when I feel the tension has started a bit) but one of my friends had commented before that I\'m pulling it too far.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid130/p5d8af670623e95c3a6210aa69a3ddce0/f7b8ae90.jpg

Any comments on how far I should be pulling up the hand brake when parking the car?

[david3]

usually I end up pulling it up so that it clicks 4-5 times

[Xenon]

I pull it up with constant force until it stops. I have no idea how many clicks that is...

[wtom]

Originally posted by Xenon


I pull it up with constant force until it stops. I have no idea how many clicks that is...

That\'s what I meant too when I use the handbrake. I saw a post in M3F about dual-exhaust sedan and someone commented that the handbrake was quite high up... and I remembered my friend commenting about my using the handbrake too so just inquiring here to see if there\'s any harm in pulling it up almost all the way as opposed to just a few clicks (I know I\'m pulling it more than just 3 to 5 clicks).

[Xenon]

Well, this is how I believe the handbrake is to be used... note this technique is all based around saving the tranny... (Automatics)

-When at a stop put the car in neutral. with brakes applied
-Apply the handbrake so that it has enough force that the car can rest on the handbrake and NOT move.
- Confirm this by releasing the foot brakes. Car should not move.
-Put the selector into Park.

The reasoning is that when you just put it into Park without the handbreak, all the weight of the car is forced onto the tranny. The E-Brake in the procedure above takes all the weight, and therefore saves your tranny in the long run.

So as for how high the brake is pulled. I pull it up. If the car doesn\'t move in neutral, then it\'s good.

[wtom]

I read somewhere before about the P gear on automatics. Sometimes, after you\'ve fully stopped the car and put it into P, the car can still roll a little, seating the tranny gears fully so they contact and the \"grip\" prevents the car from moving. I\'ve experienced this on my previous car many times.

Back to your tip, Xenon, have you ever, after full stop in neutral and applying the hand/e-brake, feel the shifter is not 100% smoothly going into P? Just thinking it\'s kinda like the manuals when trying to shift into a gear but the teeth are not fully aligned.

[david3]

Fix that picture and I can comment.... but mine is usually up past 45 degress with just light-medium pulling up.

[Dr Butcher]

Mine usually stops after 2 or 3 clicks, if I was to do more than that I\'d have to apply some significant force. I\'m not sure if every car is set the exact same way from the factory. Some may have more slack in the line and require you to pull the handle a little higher. Not sure on that though.

[david3]

in that pic it looks a bit lower than I do mine.. looks normal.

[teambedlam]

a brand new car should only take 2-3 clicks to engage the parkign brake. As time goes on, brake pads wear and cables stretch, it will 5-7 or more clicks. Basicly pull untill the car doesn\'t roll.

[billyfo]

I not 100% sure, but I think 2-3 click is too low, meaning not fully engaged the parking (hand)brake. If I drive AT cars, I barely use the hand brake when parking at a flat surface.

from my previous Hondas, dealer usually adjust the hand brake at a major (type 2 or 3) services, so I think Mazda or other will do the same.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by wtom


I read somewhere before about the P gear on automatics. Sometimes, after you\'ve fully stopped the car and put it into P, the car can still roll a little, seating the tranny gears fully so they contact and the \"grip\" prevents the car from moving. I\'ve experienced this on my previous car many times.

Back to your tip, Xenon, have you ever, after full stop in neutral and applying the hand/e-brake, feel the shifter is not 100% smoothly going into P? Just thinking it\'s kinda like the manuals when trying to shift into a gear but the teeth are not fully aligned.

in an automatic tranny, it\'s the parking pawl that prevents the car from rolling.

xenon described the proper way to park an auto tranny car (basically, engaging your parking brake before you put the shifter into P). if you don\'t engage the parking brake before putting your car into park, the parking pawl will have to stop the weight of the car.

this is very noticeable when parking an auto tranny on a hill...when removing the car from P, it will be VERY hard as you basically have to disengage the weight off the parking pawl; which is NOT good for the tranny.

as for engaging the parking brake, when the rear pads are as new as they are, 3 clicks should do it, 4 if you\'re feeling skeptical....but more than 5 (on new pads) and you\'re stretching the cable, which will fatigue it and could cause it to break in time. if you pull beyond the point that resistance is felt, then you\'re pulling too far.

[wtom]

Originally posted by MajesticBlueN

this is very noticeable when parking an auto tranny on a hill...when removing the car from P, it will be VERY hard as you basically have to disengage the weight off the parking pawl; which is NOT good for the tranny.

I\'ve felt that before on my previous auto car when parked on a steep driveway and as I pull out of P, you feel the tight grip while pulling out of P and once it\'s just out of P, you hear a loud low-level POP. OOPS.


as for engaging the parking brake, when the rear pads are as new as they are, 3 clicks should do it, 4 if you\'re feeling skeptical....but more than 5 (on new pads) and you\'re stretching the cable, which will fatigue it and could cause it to break in time. if you pull beyond the point that resistance is felt, then you\'re pulling too far.

Double oops... I\'ve definitely been pulling more than 5 clicks. :(

[Xenon]

Originally posted by wtom


I read somewhere before about the P gear on automatics. Sometimes, after you\'ve fully stopped the car and put it into P, the car can still roll a little, seating the tranny gears fully so they contact and the \"grip\" prevents the car from moving. I\'ve experienced this on my previous car many times.

Back to your tip, Xenon, have you ever, after full stop in neutral and applying the hand/e-brake, feel the shifter is not 100% smoothly going into P? Just thinking it\'s kinda like the manuals when trying to shift into a gear but the teeth are not fully aligned.

no, as a matter of fact... the shifter glides in like butter.

Whats better is that if you use the process I described, and do the exact opposite when starting the car, you NEVER hear that \"clunk\" that comes from the tranny when leaving Park. Everything is smooth and quiet, Which I assume is a good thing, because noises coming from my tranny is the last thing I want to hear.

As for the little roll, yes that is the \"grip\" but nevertheless it is still stress on the tranny. Applying the parking brake when the car is still in neutral makes the stress on the tranny minimal. It will be about the same stress as parking the car on a flat surface without the handbrake. Even if you are on a hill.

[david3]

I tested today with two clicks and it didn\'t even stop be from rolling down my drive way which is only slightly slanted. I\'d rather play it safe and stretch the cable a bit rather than risking more expensive damage.

[Xenon]

Well I don\'t pull it that hard. when I can\'t pull it anymore with the original force that I started with I stop. I know it\'s not stretched because when you disengage the parking brake, you have to pull up first to push the button. Mine pulls up with little effort.

Granted if I pulled up and not press the button I could probably squeeze one or two more clicks out of it. so I think my hand brake technique is just right.

[majic]

AFAIK, you don\'t need to go to neutral to apply the hand brake.

I usually come to a complete stop (foot brake depressed), slide the gear from D into P, pull the hand brake up until i know it\'s set (u\'ll know after you do it enough times) or till it\'s fairly hard to yank it any higher and then release the foot brake. No rolling, no bouncing and a happy tranny..

BTW.. I use the hand brake at every parking, whether it\'s uphill or downhill or flat.

EDIT: your regular brakes prevent from rolling originally and then they are replaced by the hand brake so no stress on the tranny. By the time you pull your foot off the brake, the hand brake is engaged and doing all the work.

[Black3]

if you want to put it in park before aplying the e brake, remember not to release your foot from the brake pedal or else, as indicated in previous logs, weight will rest on the parking pawl.

[rsx_r04]

Originally posted by Black3


if you want to put it in park before aplying the e brake, remember not to release your foot from the brake pedal or else, as indicated in previous logs, weight will rest on the parking pawl.



That\'s true.

For my manual car, i pull the handbreak lever all the way up. (about 7 clicks)

After my car has gone to a major service, it seems like my handbreak doesn\'t go up as much (i can only do about 3-4 clicks with exact same pressure).

And no, you can never stretch the cable too much and break it in time.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by rsx_r04

That\'s true.

For my manual car, i pull the handbreak lever all the way up. (about 7 clicks)

your rear pads are wearing down (if your e-brake uses the pads) or the shoes are worn (if your e-brake uses the \"drum-in-hat\" assembly)


Originally posted by rsx_r04
After my car has gone to a major service, it seems like my handbreak doesn\'t go up as much (i can only do about 3-4 clicks with exact same pressure).

you know why? because the slack in the cable is adjusted. as your rear pads wear (or whatever friction material engages the e-brake), the cable has to travel that much further in order to engage. an e-brake service entails adjusting the cable to factory spec, which is ~3 clicks ...as you have experienced.


Originally posted by rsx_r04

And no, you can never stretch the cable too much and break it in time.

are you sure? have you ever experienced it? if not then don\'t claim that it can\'t happen. you can break the components of the e-brake system...it may not be the cable that breaks, but it can be the \"splitter\" that connects the 2 brakes to the one cable. yank on it hard enough and something will snap.

[01AWW18T]

I pull it enough to hold the car (manual) so that it doesn\'t roll off my slanted driveway, of course I also leave the car in gear (first gear if parking up hill, reverse if parking downhill)

the only downside to pulling the handbrake too high I think is after using your brakes for a long time, thus heating them up, if the handbrake is pulled too tight and your rotors are hot, u can warp the rotors (since our rear rotors are not vented like the front ones and less than 1 cm thick)

[majic]

but doesn\'t the majority of the braking happen on your front brakes? and the hand/parking brake applies force to the rears? since i don\'t have a mazda3, drive around for a bit.. do some heavy braking.. stop on a flat surface and put the car in neutral and go \'feel\' the brakes.. i bet your fronts will be hot/warm and rears warm to normal.. that\'s just a hypothsis tho :sarc

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by majic


but doesn\'t the majority of the braking happen on your front brakes? and the hand/parking brake applies force to the rears? since i don\'t have a mazda3, drive around for a bit.. do some heavy braking.. stop on a flat surface and put the car in neutral and go \'feel\' the brakes.. i bet your fronts will be hot/warm and rears warm to normal.. that\'s just a hypothsis tho :sarc

the 3 has Electronic Brakeforce Distribution (EBD) so the braking between the front and rear are more \"equal\" than the 70/30 Front/Rear in most other cars.

regardless, even without EBD, you\'re still heating up the rear rotors and, by applying the e-brake after using your brakes for a long time, you\'re subjecting the metal to unequal cooling. the thermal differences are what can cause rotor warpage - not just from warpage of the rotor material, but also from the pad material transfer.

[majic]

right.. forgot about EBD.. DAMMIT!!! i wish i had a mazda3 then i could contribute better *sniffle sniffle*

how much of a difference in temperature levels would be needed then? and would you not recommend using the P-brake then? or would u let the car sit for a while and then do it? wouldn\'t the rotors/pads be designed to withstand such worpage?

for example, you\'re driving really fast in the winter (no snow) and you brake suddenly b/c an old granny jumped out in front of you and you can\'t swerve (1 lane road) and then you\'re in shock b/c she\'s in shock and you just sit still (with your foot on the brake) - same situation but you come to a complete stop at the lights - well isn\'t it the same as applying a P-brake (except now it\'s happening to all 4 wheels not just the rears with P-brake (or P brake applies force to all 4?))?

the part of the rotor \'unprotected\' by the pad would cool off quickly while the part that\'s tocuhing the pad would be \'insulated\' and lose heat less rapidly.

i dunno.. just playing a devil\'s advocate :p

[david3]

It doesn\'t matter since the 3, as far as I know, uses small drum brakes for the parking brake.. not the disc brakes. Also, the fronts will probably be about the same as the rears since they are usually vented on most cars and the rears are just solid.