Poll: Newborn Circumcision

[Vallord]

My fiancée is 22 weeks pregnant and this debate came up... I'm curious about your opinions. Feel free to share your experience. This will be our first child.

Option 1: Get it done
Option 2: Don't do it

Cheers

[CloudPump]

Studies show that circumcision can reduce the spread of HIV/AIDS by up to 60%.

No brainer.

http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

-Geoff

[greyseason]

Subbed for voting later

[CarLadyLisa]

Studies show that circumcision can reduce the spread of HIV/AIDS by up to 60%.

No brainer.

http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

-Geoff

Studies also show that condoms will also do this and then some ++

I didn't circumcise my son. If he wants to, he can make that choice himself. The pain can't be any worse than having a football coming out of your who-ha, ying yang, cupcake, etc.

[loki]

You have not yet confirmed that this is a boy

[CloudPump]

Studies also show that condoms will also do this and then some ++

I didn't circumcise my son. If he wants to, he can make that choice himself. The pain can't be any worse than having a football coming out of your who-ha, ying yang, cupcake, etc.

Condoms break/come off or don't even get worn. More defense is better than less.

-Geoff

[Vallord]

You have not yet confirmed that this is a boy

I could post a picture that confirms it... but you're going to have to take my word on it: It's a boy

[greyseason]

Yes, yes you should.

Now i can only speak for myself, and that is what im doing here.
The women ive been with have liked that i am. Have i asked them if theyve been with someone who was? no, so i cant confirm.

Im glad that i am. for looks, hygiene, and a sexual health perspective

Does that mean its wrong? of course not
Should he have a choice? maybe but than again parents know best and the kids not even born yet


What i will say, for the non circumsized, you cant reattach the piece later when you can remove it.

Just remember, oprah, will just crush it up and put it in her make up

[rzapata]

May I suggest getting it done when at the age of maybe 10 or 11? I've heard stories of babies getting circumcised, but the skin will have regrown when they get older. Mind you, I don't know anybody who's gotten it done when they were infants, so this is all just hearsay.

Also, with the advances in medical technology, it can be done without feeling any pain. You may feel some irritation a few days after but well, just live with it I guess. :)

[lazycro]

Kid 1: "Hey Charlie, you wanna come to my 10th birthday this weekend?!"
Charlie: "No I gotta get my penis chopped sorry bud"

[rzapata]

Kid 1: "Hey Charlie, you wanna come to my 10th birthday this weekend?!"
Charlie: "No I gotta get my penis chopped sorry bud"

Yeah, because that's how it goes alright. :chuckle

You wanna hear a nice story... Back in the days, people get circumcised the old fashion way. Meaning no anesthetics, no fancy doctors, no medicine, no nothing. Just some good old knives and hammers. Well, that's how it was done in our land. :chuckle

[ds2chan]

My thoughts are this is a painful procedure. If you want to do it I would say wait until he's around 8-10 when he can understand what's going to happen and deal with the pain. Of course, you'll have to wait on him hand and foot for a day or two.

[20143GTowner]

eh, I had it done when I was born and tbh I am very thankfull I did. Don't remember a damn thing lol. I can't fathom being not, and every woman I have been with has been happy that I was.

[SomeGuy]

Would hate to have it chopped later in life (even at a young age, shit hurts then)...get it done, there's no reason to have it.

[S.F.W.]

My thoughts are this is a painful procedure. If you want to do it I would say wait until he's around 8-10 when he can understand what's going to happen and deal with the pain. Of course, you'll have to wait on him hand and foot for a day or two.

Painful ? Likely more painful as you get older.
Myself, and other Jewish males had it done at 8 days old. You get some wine on your gums to help numb the pain, a quick snip, a bit of crying(or an hour), and you are set for life. CloudPump

[CloudPump]

Painful ? Likely more painful as you get older.
Myself, and other Jewish males had it done at 8 days old. You get some wine on your gums to help numb the pain, a quick snip, a bit of crying(or an hour), and you are set for life. CloudPump

Not Jewish, but am circumcised, happened at birth, don't remember a thing. Happy it was done.

-Geoff

[lazycro]

I'm going to stop reading this thread.... knowing that now I know whose penis is circumcised as members :(

[rzapata]

I'm going to stop reading this thread.... knowing that now I know whose penis is circumcised as members :(

There's no shame in knowing. But thinking about it is a different story. :chuckle

[fruitloops]

#team4skin

[m_bisson]

Get it done!

[greyseason]

#team4skin
Hahah type that in Google

[greyseason]

#nocover

[goodcase]

circumcision = genital mutilation. Don't do it, he should be able to make the decision himself if he wants to.

[Pacman]

circumcision = genital mutilation. Don't do it, he should be able to make the decision himself if he wants to.
You make a good case goodcase

Sorry had to make that joke

[lazycro]

I sure hope you preach the same about religion goodcase

[Vallord]

A lot of good comments and opinions. Keep them coming.

[jaynsue13]

circumcision = genital mutilation. Don't do it, he should be able to make the decision himself if he wants to.


What a stupid comment. genital mutilation the best comment you can make. Educate your self on a topic before you make ridiculous comments like this

[greyseason]

If they split your penis down the middle, thats mutilation.

If it were 'mutilated' im sure they would have stopped in the dark ages

[loki]

This thread is just rediculous

[Jackal]

This thread is just redditculous

Fixed.
http://www.reddit.com/r/circumcision

[n00bMeiSter]

Yeah, because that's how it goes alright. :chuckle

You wanna hear a nice story... Back in the days, people get circumcised the old fashion way. Meaning no anesthetics, no fancy doctors, no medicine, no nothing. Just some good old knives and hammers. Well, that's how it was done in our land. :chuckle

Hammers?!

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/5282651648/hC63EC6DF/

http://new2.fjcdn.com/comments/5239944+_d5ce0fbca0d8dbf4eaa51628910380a9.jpg

[n00bMeiSter]

In all seriousness, if you're concerned with it hurting him, or him feeling pain. Then get it done now, he's not going to remember it. If you wait until he's past the age of 3, he's definitely going to remember it.

[goodcase]

I was going to reply, but I cant even be bothered. The guy asked for an opinion, and I posted one.

[m_bisson]

I was going to reply, but I cant even be bothered. The guy asked for an opinion, and I posted one.

I'm glad you stopped once you realized you were misinformed.

[Vallord]

This thread is just rediculous

That was not the plan. I was hopping for parents with opinion on the matter. loki feel free to close the threat

[loki]

No one can really say either way what they prefer since guy's who get it done are so young that this is all they know

And no one in their right mind would get that done as an adult unless mecessary for any reason

You just have to figure out your reasons and if you decide yes then do it just after birth

Don't think any guy hates their parents for the decision either way right?!?

I won't lock just yet but will keep an eye on the thread

[m_bisson]

It's definitely cleaner when it's cut. Girls like it better. If a girl has told you otherwise, it's just to be kind.

[n00bMeiSter]

I'm glad you stopped once you realized you were misinformed.

There's no need to be a dick about it



It's definitely cleaner when it's cut. Girls like it better. If a girl has told you otherwise, it's just to be kind.

Sigh.... Are you the penis expert now? Just because you saw some sluts in a porno/casting couch video say they like it better doesn't mean all women do. There are women out there who don't care, and others who like it "au-natural". Stop trying to tell him he's wrong just because you don't like foreskin.

[loki]

It's definitely cleaner when it's cut. Girls like it better. If a girl has told you otherwise, it's just to be kind.
And it is opinions like this this thread is rediculous

[n00bMeiSter]

@Vallord (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/member.php?u=4249) at the end of the day, it comes down to what you and your fiance decide you want to do.
Don't let the opinion of a bunch of trolls on the internet make the decision for you. If you truly are concerned, do your research, read the medical articles and make an educated decision. (Any article / page / site / etc that makes claims without providing the scientific data and links to the originating source of that data, are not worth your time). I would suggest using university and college library webpages to search through academic and scientific databases.

You have at least 4 months left to decide, and even then you can still hold off and do it later. Take your time.

[fywdyl]

http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

Article doesn't really say WHY it reduces the risk, does it? Unless I missed it?

Jerking off with foreskin > jerking off without

End of debate.

edit: The more I read the article, the less the situation applies. It says they recommend it in countries with heterosexual HIV epidemic.... this is Canada, I don't think we have that problem.

That being said, I guess it's up to you. It's like wisdom teeth. May have served a purpose before, but now pretty much useless.

[m_bisson]

I can't wait for the thread when he asks about breastfeeding vs formula.
And let's also do the vaccination debate too.

We can really help raise this kid properly!

[Kiewan]

That was a good read. My co-worker had it done to her son a few weeks ago as a newborn for nonreligious reasons. IMO that would be the best time to do it.
Whatever your decision is, make sure you have it set in stone when he is still a little guy.

[Astig02]

Yeah, because that's how it goes alright. :chuckle

You wanna hear a nice story... Back in the days, people get circumcised the old fashion way. Meaning no anesthetics, no fancy doctors, no medicine, no nothing. Just some good old knives and hammers. Well, that's how it was done in our land. :chuckle
I do not think there is a downside on this. He will thank you.

For another story, when i was in grade 4 back home in the philippines, everynight i had wished i wake up the next morning and i am circumsize. Plus we did not have money to go the doctor so i had done mine in the old fashion way. All i had with me was guava leaves to chew as the hammer came down 3 times. There was 3 of us and i was the 1st. The 2rd guy was way older grade 7 ( 1st HS back home) and took almost 10 hammerdowns. He needed a sharper blade..poor guy. And the 3nd guy back out.lol

In short, better get it done.
Discuss it with ur wife. Congrats in advance.

[CarLadyLisa]

Condoms break/come off or don't even get worn. More defense is better than less.

-Geoff
I'm going to severely disagree with where this is headed and stop commenting before I say something I may regret.

I will say...They thought my son was jaundice when he was born. They took so many blood tests and made him wail from it. I didn't see the point to hurting him intentionally for the sake of vanity. Its not my body. Its his.

The condom thing all comes down to responsibility.

[ryan2.3]

If you're going to plan on doing it, do it now then waiting til later. When we had our son done, he gave 3 cries and then seconds later he was fine. Obviously, there's no way to have him do it again to compare, but i imagine if it were done when he was older, he'd be more aware and feel it more. i say do it now as soon as he's born or do it never. I remember a Penn and Teller episode talking about it, and the guy they had get it done said it was the worst feeling he'd ever had.

[FoXy]

I personally would not do it. There is nothing showing that you "need" to do it or that it is more "clean". If your kids junk is not clean enough on a regular basis to the point where it causes problems than that is your fail as a parent for not showing how your kid how to clean his dick and balls properly. I know plenty of guys who have/don't have it done and there is no real difference. I have also nailed guys with and without and again... it makes no difference.

If a girl was "weirded out" by a dude who was UNcircumcised than she is just a facking dumbdumb, but then again, maybe he's one of those dudes who's parents didn't show him how to clean his junk... lol

[loki]

finally "junk cleaning" has been introduced into the conversation

I eagerly await the responses

[Cab0oze]

I can't wait for the thread when he asks about breastfeeding vs formula.
And let's also do the vaccination debate too.

We can really help raise this kid properly!
Bahahahahaha best post ever.

[Vallord]

finally "junk cleaning" has been introduced into the conversation

I eagerly await the responses

On that note... I remember listening to a show on the radio and they were asking women if they would "go down" on a guy if he wasn't circumcised... For the women afraid of the cleanliness, just remember that your thing is all inside. If a women can keep it clean, I'm sure men can do the same.

I'm not circumcised and I never had any issues or bad comments regarding it.

[Vallord]

m_bisson I'll keep you in my close contact in case I need help... Loll

More curiously, I was just curious to see where people were standing on the matter. My fiancée and I are for breastfeeding and vaccination, no need for a debate

[lazycro]

#teamcircumcision

[r4BBiT]

To OP in my opinion if you want to do it, do it when he is just a little boy. We circumcised our son when he was like 2-3 months and they gave him anaesthetic and he was fine and took it very well. They also give them little bit of sugar water first to help them deal with the pain. The worst was one hour after getting home when anaesthetic wore off, but we just gave him tylenol, he wanted to cuddle for rest of the day and next day woke up just like normal. The little ring (we used plasti-bell method, which is the most common) fell off in about a week to 10 days.

Now, I had to get circumcision done for medical reasons when I was a teenager and I can tell you that people that are telling you to wait and let him make that decision later are crazy and maybe the should try it themselves as adult. I was put in under for it so the procedure wasn't an issue, but the 2-3 weeks that it took to heal after was pretty horrible; i.e. try to think about getting a boner with 10 stitches around it as that will happen, lol.

I hope that helps.

[loki]

To OP in my opinion if you want to do it, do it when he is just a little boy. We circumcised our son when he was like 2-3 months and they gave him anaesthetic and he was fine and took it very well. They also give them little bit of sugar water first to help them deal with the pain. The worst was one hour after getting home when anaesthetic wore off, but we just gave him tylenol, he wanted to cuddle for rest of the day and next day woke up just like normal. The little ring (we used plasti-bell method, which is the most common) fell off in about a week to 10 days.

Now, I had to get circumcision done for medical reasons when I was a teenager and I can tell you that people that are telling you to wait and let him make that decision later are crazy and maybe the should try it themselves as adult. I was put in under for it so the procedure wasn't an issue, but the 2-3 weeks that it took to heal after was pretty horrible; i.e. try to think about getting a boner with 10 stitches around it as that will happen, lol.

I hope that helps.

dude...

I just read this and now my dick hurts

[r4BBiT]

lol, sorry loki

[geobur]

try to think about getting a boner with 10 stitches around

^^NOPE, NOPE, NOPE

I have it done and I prefer it. But like loki said, I have never known any different. I personally think it is easier to keep clean...(yes you can keep anything clean. You can keep the wheel wells and engine bay completely clean too...but it is a lot easier to clean the exterior of the car)

I will say this...although I have always enjoyed sex, apparently "an uncut penis is more sensitive than a circumcised penis" so theoretically sex is better...that being said...that again is all relative on experience and partners...

Although I suppose r4BBiT could give us a true comparison :P

[m_bisson]

Don't forget, the loss of sensitivity may be because you have the amputation as an adult rather than a newborn. It may cause nerve damage that would normally heal in a baby.

[loki]

Don't forget, the loss of sensitivity may be because you have the amputation as an adult rather than a newborn. It may cause nerve damage that would normally heal in a baby.

I think there would naturally be a lack of sensitivity simply because the tip of your dick has been exposed for so long, vs hidden away

Again no one here can really compare the 2 scenarios, except maybe somone who had the procedure done while they were sexually active at the time.

I don't think the point of this OP was sexual in nature, to be honest I don't even know the point any more, but the kid is not even born yet I doubt the OP is wondering about his sex life at this time

[asyed]

No.


/nicolepost

[Tozer]

Again no one here can really compare the 2 scenarios, except maybe somone who had the procedure done while they were sexually active at the time.

There is no decrease in sensitivity. I'm speaking from pure experience here, if anything a slight increase as strange as that sounds. However getting it done as an adult is ****ing awful. That is all.

[loki]

There is no decrease in sensitivity. I'm speaking from pure experience here, if anything a slight increase as strange as that sounds. However getting it done as an adult is ****ing awful. That is all.
If you got it done as an adult (damn...)

But I'm saying having it done as a newborn I feel it would lose sensitivity ourely purely for the reason of always being exposed

[Tozer]

If you got it done as an adult (damn...)

But I'm saying having it done as a newborn I feel it would lose sensitivity ourely purely for the reason of always being exposed

I can't speak for newborn so you're probably right but as an adult solely from my experience there isn't a decrease. I'm just counting my blessings that mine didn't involve a hammer

[loki]

I can't speak for newborn so you're probably right but as an adult solely from my experience there isn't a decrease. I'm just counting my blessings that mine didn't involve a hammer
I don't even know how hammer would work...I will look it up although I don't think I should

[jakesms3]

I say get it done

[The Wolf]

Do it or don't. You have to know that every male is going to argue their side for no reason other than my penis is the best penis.

[The Wolf]

I don't even know how hammer would work...I will look it up although I don't think I should
If you Google BME Pain Olympics you'll get the gist.

[m_bisson]

Well? What's the verdict?
Vallord

[Vallord]

Not sure yet. I personally don't see the point, but the wife thinks differently. We still have about two months to decide

[0nsp]

Studies show that circumcision can reduce the spread of HIV/AIDS by up to 60%.

No brainer.

http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/

-Geoff
This has to be balanced against the risk of complications from the procedure such as bleeding and infection. These risks offset the STD benefit, and so overall, it's a wash and comes down to personal preference and religious custom (I think there is a guideline for the SOGC (society of obstetricians and gynecologists of Canada) somewhere). And that still doesn't take into account the decreased sexual pleasure from having dried mucous membranes. Now if you lived in an area where AIDS was rampant, that might be a different story.

[CloudPump]

This has to be balanced against the risk of complications from the procedure such as bleeding and infection. These risks offset the STD benefit, and so overall, it's a wash and comes down to personal preference and religious custom (I think there is a guideline for the SOGC (society of obstetricians and gynecologists of Canada) somewhere). And that still doesn't take into account the decreased sexual pleasure from having dried mucous membranes. Now if you lived in an area where AIDS was rampant, that might be a different story.

Don't give your opinion, show me a study or some science that says your claimed complications offset the benefit.

I would find this hard to believe. Assuming your sterilized doctor, sterilized equipment and sterilized area where the procedure took place led to an infection, a few antibiotics to clear this up and a short-term annoyance Vs. a lifelong reduction in the chance to contract an incurable, fatal disease...

-Geoff

[CloudPump]

If you got it done as an adult (damn...)

But I'm saying having it done as a newborn I feel it would lose sensitivity ourely purely for the reason of always being exposed

With this logic, your hands would have lost their sensitivity by now.

-Geoff

[m_bisson]

CloudPump "don't give your opinion..." best line ever :p

[Dave_The_BMXER]

With this logic, your hands would have lost their sensitivity by now.

-Geoff

Your hands are less sensitive now than when you were born.

[The Wolf]

Yeah so you can go longer. Sounds like a win win

[CloudPump]

Your hands are less sensitive now than when you were born.

Exactly the opposite:

http://geronj.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/1/34.short

A study measuring Tactile sensitivity as a function of age.

-Geoff

[0nsp]

Don't give your opinion, show me a study or some science that says your claimed complications offset the benefit.

I would find this hard to believe. Assuming your sterilized doctor, sterilized equipment and sterilized area where the procedure took place led to an infection, a few antibiotics to clear this up and a short-term annoyance Vs. a lifelong reduction in the chance to contract an incurable, fatal disease...

-Geoff
I did give a quote . Look up the SOGC guidelines. There are national guidelines for this thing (from the highest body of Medicine) Show me the numbers for HIV protection. Actually don't. I know them. The numbers are miniscule. Hence the wash.

if you want an opinion: I wouldn't do it because I think it's genital mutilation. Can't do it to girls so why is it OK to do to guys?.

[0nsp]

With this logic, your hands would have lost their sensitivity by now.

-Geoff
The hands do not have a mucous membrane. Try keeping your nose dry all the time and seeing how well you smell. Honestly, take an anatomy class or Something.

[Dave_The_BMXER]

Exactly the opposite:

http://geronj.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/1/34.short

A study measuring Tactile sensitivity as a function of age.

-Geoff

This seems very odd, given that after time my hands have become "numb" to certain things that previously brought pain.


Weird.

[CloudPump]

I did give a quote . Look up the SOGC guidelines. There are national guidelines for this thing (from the highest body of Medicine) Show me the numbers for HIV protection. Actually don't. I know them. The numbers are miniscule. Hence the wash.

if you want an opinion: I wouldn't do it because I think it's genital mutilation. Can't do it to girls so why is it OK to do to guys?.

The first reply to this thread (and the post you quoted initially) contains the link you're now requesting.

The reduction in HIV/AIDS transmission is as high as 60%.

http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/en/ <-- Link repost for you

http://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=male+circumcision+for+hiv+prevention&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ei=bMB9VNvwK4T2yQTnpoCYCw&ved=0CBoQgQMwAA <--- here's a link to about 17,400 medical articles on HIV prevention through male circumcision. Enjoy.

-Geoff

Edit: is piercing your daughter's ears considered aural mutilation? Is getting a tattoo dermal mutilation? Cutting your hair is follicle mutilation? Maybe vaccinating your children is both dermal and immunal mutilation?

The point is: Humans have been "mutilating" themselves for... ever in the name of fashion, self expression, or for medical advantages.

You're entitled to believe whatever you'd like, but don't come in here spewing nonsense that the medical benefits are minuscule when they're well documented or that somehow mucous membranes suddenly grew on the outside of the tip of your penis.

-Geoff


The hands do not have a mucous membrane. Try keeping your nose dry all the time and seeing how well you smell. Honestly, take an anatomy class or Something.

Yes, the anatomy class you're suggesting I take would tell you that the mucous membrane that surrounds your urethra is *inside* your penis, (well, because your urethra is inside your penis). There is also a mucous membrane that surrounds the inner foreskin, but this again, is surrounding the foreskin, which is not the prime area for sexual sensitivity.

Honestly, pay attention in your anatomy class or something.

-Geoff

Finally another link:

http://www.webmd.com/sexual-conditions/guide/circumcision

Quick and easy, the pros and cons of circumcision.

-Geoff

[loki]

With this logic, your hands would have lost their sensitivity by now.

-Geoff

do you play the guitar?

CloudPump


I stay away from TM3 for a few days and come back to find this thread is still going

[CloudPump]

do you play the guitar?

CloudPump

I went through a phase once upon a time.

I'm assuming (correct me if I'm wrong) that this is heading towards callouses. Callouses are not a loss of sensitivity, the nerve endings in your hand are still functioning as well as ever, but they are gaining a "buffer" of toughened skin forming over high-traffic/high contact areas. Think of this like wearing hockey pants and taking a slapshot off the thigh. You still feel it, but less so and the act of putting hockey pants on didn't reduce your leg's sensitivity.

Now if you're forming callouses on your penis... well you've got problems I can't solve.

That little joke aside, in my *opinion* I wouldn't think foreskin would be much of a saviour here. I still get callouses on my feet and I wear shoes and socks.
(again, opinion, but then again, I'm not familiar with an epidemic of penis callouses).

-Geoff

[loki]

but with callouses you would be able to go even longer

The Wolf

[FoXy]

You know what prevents the spread of HIV/AIDS?.... condoms/other various forms of protection.

Not circumcising your kid, I cant believe anyone would use that reference on this 1st world continent we live on. No one is using circumcision as a reason to prevent the spread of disease. Over here the only reason for it is personal preference/ignorance/vanity/cultural beliefs (Jews/Muslims/etc). People get AIDS from unprotected sex, period. I am sure there are plenty of circumcised and un-circumcised men out there with AIDS who would beg to differ if it helps prevent AIDS.

White people do it mostly due to ignorance. There really is no NEED for it, only a want. I mean after all, is there not a reason why the human body was developed that way in the first place? (rhetorical question)

At the end of the day, it's your kid, do what you want. He probably won't remember the traumatization of it. But then again, why do something painful to your child if you don't have to.

[6strings]

Nobody wants to go through with it when they are an adult.

[Rogreborn]

You know what prevents the spread of HIV/AIDS?.... condoms/other various forms of protection.

Not circumcising your kid, I cant believe anyone would use that reference on this 1st world continent we live on. No one is using circumcision as a reason to prevent the spread of disease. Over here the only reason for it is personal preference/ignorance/vanity/cultural beliefs (Jews/Muslims/etc). People get AIDS from unprotected sex, period. I am sure there are plenty of circumcised and un-circumcised men out there with AIDS who would beg to differ if it helps prevent AIDS.

White people do it mostly due to ignorance. There really is no NEED for it, only a want. I mean after all, is there not a reason why the human body was developed that way in the first place? (rhetorical question)

At the end of the day, it's your kid, do what you want. He probably won't remember the traumatization of it. But then again, why do something painful to your child if you don't have to.

Uhh, because it looks way better.

[CloudPump]

You know what prevents the spread of HIV/AIDS?.... condoms/other various forms of protection.

Not circumcising your kid, I cant believe anyone would use that reference on this 1st world continent we live on. No one is using circumcision as a reason to prevent the spread of disease. Over here the only reason for it is personal preference/ignorance/vanity/cultural beliefs (Jews/Muslims/etc). People get AIDS from unprotected sex, period. I am sure there are plenty of circumcised and un-circumcised men out there with AIDS who would beg to differ if it helps prevent AIDS.

White people do it mostly due to ignorance. There really is no NEED for it, only a want. I mean after all, is there not a reason why the human body was developed that way in the first place? (rhetorical question)

At the end of the day, it's your kid, do what you want. He probably won't remember the traumatization of it. But then again, why do something painful to your child if you don't have to.

Yes, Condoms are by far the most effective way of preventing HIV/AIDS between sexual partners (aside from flat out not having sex).

Living in a hermetically sealed bubble is also the best way to prevent the mumps/polio/numerous other diseases, however we (obviously) don't all do that, we get vaccinated.

People do not "get AIDS from unprotected sex, period." People get AIDS/HIV from dirty needles, blood transfusions, poor handling of medical waste, and many other ways. Unprotected sex with an infected partner is certainly on that list, but it is not *the* list.

Now perhaps you're lucky enough that in your personal life a condom has never broken, but I cannot say the same. At no point have I, or anyone else said "HEY, IF YOU GET CIRCUMCISED THERE IS A 0% CHANCE OF GETTING AIDS/HIV THROUGH SEX, SO LET'S ALL GET BUSY!!" but what has been scientifically proven beyond any shadow of a doubt is that transmission rates of HIV/AIDS between heterosexual partners is up to 60% lower.

Taking your example, yes there are a lot of circumcised and uncircumcised men who have HIV/AIDS. The fact is that *some* of those uncircumcised men would not have HIV/AIDS today if they had been circumcised.

The human body has developed in many different ways, some very useful, some not so much. Believe me I don't find it too useful that my testicles (one of the most sensitive and potentially painful spots on my body) have almost no protection and dangle in a "dangerous" area. Wouldn't it have been smarter for them to have developed behind my ribcage?

Let's use rabbits:

These cute little guys have evolved so inefficiently that for a rabbit to meet it's nutritional needs, they have to eat their own poop. Their evolved digestive system is so poor that they do not derive enough nutrients from the food that they eat, that they have to eat their own droppings to re-digest and re-extract the necessities of life.

But hey, I mean after all, is there not a reason why the (rabbit) body was developed that way in the first place? (not a rhetorical question).

-Geoff

Edits: spelling/punctuation.

[unknown]

I came across this interesting read on thestar.com and thought about this thread.
http://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/2014/12/02/benefits_of_male_circumcision_outweigh_risks_cente rs_for_disease_control_says.html

An excerpt:

"In the new guidelines, the CDC says there is now strong evidence that male circumcision can:
Cut a man’s risk of getting HIV from an infected female partner by 50 to 60 per cent.
Reduce their risk of genital herpes and certain strains of human papillomavirus by 30 per cent or more.
Lower the odds of urinary tract infections during infancy, and cancer of the penis in adulthood.

Studies have not shown that circumcision will reduce an HIV-infected man’s chances of spreading the AIDS virus to women. And research has not found circumcision to be a help in stopping spread of HIV during gay sex.

The guidelines say circumcision is safer for newborns and infants than for older males, noting the complication rate rises from 0.5 per cent in newborns to 9 per cent in children ages 1 to 9, according to the CDC. Minor bleeding and pain are the most common problems, experts say."


They didn't mention what the less common complications are...

[m_bisson]

do you play the guitar?

CloudPump


I stay away from TM3 for a few days and come back to find this thread is still going

I usually stir the pot, but it's nice to sit back and watch for once.

[Aitch]

@CloudPump (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/member.php?u=21951), I'm not going to dispute the 60% decrease in HIV/AIDS transmission statistic, but you have to add the qualifier (from your own source) that the studies were done in African countries, and that the WHO states (http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/fact_sheet/en/) in the same sentence that male circumcision is recommended in areas where HIV/AIDS infection rates are high and circumcision is low.


Since 2007, WHO and UNAIDS have recommended voluntary medical male circumcision as an additional important strategy for HIV prevention, particularly in settings with high HIV prevalence and low levels of male circumcision, where the public health benefits will be maximized.

While circumcision does have the potential to reduce HIV/AIDS transmission, the statistical reduction in Western countries (where infection rates are significantly lower and condom use significantly higher) is going to be much lower. From the bottom of the CDC's page on the issue (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/prevention/research/malecircumcision/):


A number of important differences from sub-Saharan African settings where the three male circumcision trials were conducted must be considered in determining the possible role for male circumcision in HIV prevention in the United States. Notably, the overall risk of HIV infection is considerably lower in the United States, changing risk-benefit and cost-effectiveness considerations.

Statistically speaking, if you live in North America, are straight and use a condom, the chances of HIV/AIDs infection is pretty low, and it's arguable that being circumcised would change the numbers much.

[Metal Wing]

In my humble opinion... You can circumcise the boy if it's for religious, cultural, or medical reasons. Otherwise, let it be.

(When I say medical, I mean if it actually poses harm to the kid when he is older. Not the potential health concerns you are discussing)

[CloudPump]

@CloudPump (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/member.php?u=21951), I'm not going to dispute the 60% decrease in HIV/AIDS transmission statistic, but you have to add the qualifier (from your own source) that the studies were done in African countries, and that the WHO states (http://www.who.int/hiv/topics/malecircumcision/fact_sheet/en/) in the same sentence that male circumcision is recommended in areas where HIV/AIDS infection rates are high and circumcision is low.



While circumcision does have the potential to reduce HIV/AIDS transmission, the statistical reduction in Western countries (where infection rates are significantly lower and condom use significantly higher) is going to be much lower. From the bottom of the CDC's page on the issue (http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/prevention/research/malecircumcision/):



Statistically speaking, if you live in North America, are straight and use a condom, the chances of HIV/AIDs infection is pretty low, and it's arguable that being circumcised would change the numbers much.

Agreed mostly.

The 60% statistic does not speak to your overall chance of getting HIV/AIDS, it is referring to the reduction in your chance of contraction from transmission when having unprotected intercourse with an infected partner. This 60% reduction does not change whether you're in Africa, Iceland or North America.

What does change is the prevalence of partners with HIV/AIDS. Botswana has one of the worlds highest HIV rates. Nearly 25% of the adult population is infected. This means that you have roughly a 1/4 chance of your partner being a carrier. Obviously these are not good odds and extra care should be taken.

In Canada there is an estimated 0.002% HIV infection rate among adults. This is approximately 71,300 people in the country (2011 stats.) (of which 1/4 do not know they are infected (estimated)).

In either country, a circumcised man has a 60% reduced chance of transmission through heterosexual intercourse with an infected partner, there just simply happens to be a DRASTICALLY reduced chance of coming across an infected partner in Canada. The risk-benefit and cost-effectiveness are obviously less in Canada, but the reduction of risk is still the same.

These studies are done in Africa due to the rampant spread of the virus there and the efforts to contain it.

-Geoff

Edit: Reduced chance of coming across a partner in Canada or not, I still don't want HIV/AIDS.

[mazdasport]

as also a new father i believe you should have him circumcised if you and not if you are not

[m_bisson]

as also a new father i believe you should have him circumcised if you and not if you are not

That's silly. Nobody should be circumcised then.

[mazdasport]

your right it doesn't i flew to thunder bay this morning at 6 and now im waiting for my flight home im a little tired

[asyed]

I cant believe this thread is still going.

In the end its up to you and its your choice. I see no problem with whatever the outcome is.
This is a very sensitive subject and its like debating religion. You will have nay sayers and you will have people promoting it. Its a continuous cycle and If theres a health concern that is making you on the fence for it, then Id suggest you consult your family doctor rather than posting about it on the internet where who knows what credibility there is for information on both sides ( apart from those who actually provide proof to credible sources ofcourse). Now if its a moral reason, everyone is going to have their opinion on it and neither opinion is right / wrong. Please dont make your decision purely based off what one guy on the internet says (if its regarding morality). You dont know their moral values and it may be their culture to get it done. To them, not getting it done could be disgusting or not moral.


also if you really must have the decision made by us.. just look at the poll. The winner is pretty clear.

[kennyhoe]

I keep it on for the extra girth provided, no biggie.

[dentinger]

Dick cheese/smegma is a pretty good reason to get circumcised

[loki]

Dick cheese/smegma is a pretty good reason to get circumcised

or you could bathe

[0nsp]

Dick cheese/smegma is a pretty good reason to get circumcised
Do you never wash your cock? Retract foreskin and rinse. 3 seconds. How hard was that?

And for everyone quoting the 60 percent reduction, it would be worthwhile to look up the difference between relative and absolute risk reduction. Dropping the risk of something happening to you from 75% to 37.5% is a big deal whereas dropping the risk from 2 to 1% is not. Still, the relative risk reduction is 50% in both cases and this is number that is published to artificially look bigger.. As others have pointed out, this now depends on the prevalence of disease such that a 60% reduction for a highly prevalent area (africa) is a big deal but a 60% decrease in a long prevalence area (usa) is insignificant.

And yes, the glans of the penis IS covered in a mucous membrane. If you are circumcised, this dessicsates as it is exposed, decreasing the sensitivity of the glans and potentially decreasing sexual pleasure. (although some may argue that you would be able to last longer)

[loki]

and to get back to the poll and the idea some have mentioned that the girls like it better, the only 2 girls who seemed to give a shit about this thread, both voted against it

LoL

FoXy CarLadyLisa

[FoXy]

"People do not "get AIDS from unprotected sex, period." People get AIDS/HIV from dirty needles, blood transfusions, poor handling of medical waste, and many other ways. Unprotected sex with an infected partner is certainly on that list, but it is not *the* list."

Omg, get over yourself. CLEARLY there are other ways to get AIDS, but we aren't even talking about that so there was absolutely no need to bring it up. Jesus, you just love to have the last word on everything.

Clearly this guy likes his dicks circumcised... you hear that guys??

I personally don't care, to each his own. I wouldn't turn down a guy strictly on the fact that he was or was not circumcised. I have had boyfriends who are, and some who aren't. You literally don't even notice a difference in sex or anything else. The only time you see/notice a difference is when they are flaccid.

Bottom line, if you aren't, that's fine, just make sure you clean yourself thoroughly, like you are SUPPOSED to do anyway. If you are, that's fine too. I am just saying, I would never do it to my kid. I know my brothers aren't and they have never seemed to have a problem.

Also, you should always use protection while sleeping with randoms. And if you have AIDS and don't know it, well than you have much much bigger problems. Whether or not a you have a certain kind of penis really makes no difference in North America nowadays. Anyone can spread anything, at any time. STD's are out there. Be wary no matter what. The circumcision debate is over done here, I don't care to hear anymore about it. It's personal preference but I certainly don't think people should be making a decision about it thinking that it's going to help prevent them from getting AIDS or other STD's... that is just plain ignorant. Protection and education is what prevents people from getting STD's.
loki

[CarLadyLisa]

and to get back to the poll and the idea some have mentioned that the girls like it better, the only 2 girls who seemed to give a shit about this thread, both voted against it

LoL
FoXy CarLadyLisa
All man parts look weird regardless.

Wearing condoms is just smart.

[SirWanker]

All man parts look weird regardless.

As are the women bits......now who , male or female, prefers to be natural, trimmed or bald down there?

[CarLadyLisa]

As are the women bits......now who , male or female, prefers to be natural, trimmed or bald down there?

"No comment"


Edit: quotes for effect

[asyed]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/293/590/6f6.gif

[6strings]

This thread took a wrong turn somewhere between foreskin and scrotum.

[greyseason]

im circ'd and trimmed.

My child will be circ'd (if a boy, clearly) and he can do whatever he wants to his parts grooming wise

[greyseason]

Next years meets will be awesome, as these conversations are wonderful

[6strings]

im circ'd and trimmed.

My child will be circ'd (if a boy, clearly) and he can do whatever he wants to his parts grooming wise


TMI on TM3

[Aitch]

im circ'd and trimmed.



New user title?

[SirWanker]

New user title?

dibs on cut & waxed

[CloudPump]

"People do not "get AIDS from unprotected sex, period." People get AIDS/HIV from dirty needles, blood transfusions, poor handling of medical waste, and many other ways. Unprotected sex with an infected partner is certainly on that list, but it is not *the* list."

Omg, get over yourself. CLEARLY there are other ways to get AIDS, but we aren't even talking about that so there was absolutely no need to bring it up. Jesus, you just love to have the last word on everything.

Clearly this guy likes his dicks circumcised... you hear that guys??

I personally don't care, to each his own. I wouldn't turn down a guy strictly on the fact that he was or was not circumcised. I have had boyfriends who are, and some who aren't. You literally don't even notice a difference in sex or anything else. The only time you see/notice a difference is when they are flaccid.

Bottom line, if you aren't, that's fine, just make sure you clean yourself thoroughly, like you are SUPPOSED to do anyway. If you are, that's fine too. I am just saying, I would never do it to my kid. I know my brothers aren't and they have never seemed to have a problem.

Also, you should always use protection while sleeping with randoms. And if you have AIDS and don't know it, well than you have much much bigger problems. Whether or not a you have a certain kind of penis really makes no difference in North America nowadays. Anyone can spread anything, at any time. STD's are out there. Be wary no matter what. The circumcision debate is over done here, I don't care to hear anymore about it. It's personal preference but I certainly don't think people should be making a decision about it thinking that it's going to help prevent them from getting AIDS or other STD's... that is just plain ignorant. Protection and education is what prevents people from getting STD's.
loki

Good work. You say something silly, get called out on it and your only response is to throw out a loosely veiled homosexual comment. Maturity at its finest.

I do find it hilariously contradictory that you will say in the same paragraph "Whether or not a you have a certain kind of penis really makes no difference in North America nowadays. Anyone can spread anything, at any time. STD's are out there" followed by "I certainly don't think people should be making a decision about it thinking that it's going to help prevent them from getting AIDS or other STD's... that is just plain ignorant. Protection and education is what prevents people from getting STD's."

So the education shows that a minor surgical procedure can provide protection against the spread of HIV/AIDS, but your advice is to ignore this because it's unlikely your partner will have HIV/AIDS. Good strategy. Why use condoms in the first place? It's less likely that my partner will have an STD vs. not, so I guess they're useless now too.

-Geoff

[loki]

so who here that has commented actually knew this information and isn't just really good at using google's search function

because either this is a battle of knowledge or who just has more time to search the internet

[loki]

Why use condoms in the first place? It's less likely that my partner will have an STD vs. not, so I guess they're useless now too.

-Geoff

condoms also can protect against unwanted/unplanned pregnancy

[6strings]

People have been raw doggin' it for centuries.

[CloudPump]

condoms also can protect against unwanted/unplanned pregnancy

Sure, but with the "logic" being used in this thread, it's more probable that my partner is:

a) not ovulating
b) on the pill
c) infertile

-Geoff

[Dave_The_BMXER]

Dick cheese/smegma is a pretty good reason to get circumcised

This is silly. If you can't (or don't think you can) teach your offspring proper hygiene stop breeding.

[loki]

of further note, even the OP has voted against it in his own poll

[Rogreborn]

I'm cut, therefore my son is cut. I think it looks better, call me vain.

[6strings]

Vein

[m_bisson]

Veiny.

[loki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQS5iVugfqI

[fruitloops]

What is circumcision?

[Default User]

What is circumcision?

The #1 way to ask a girl to kiss your boo-boo.

[asyed]

The #1 way to ask a girl to kiss your boo-boo.

Anyone care to confirm this theory?

[Kiewan]

OP- I'm curious if your fiance knows about this thread at all.

[asyed]

OP- I'm curious if your fiance knows about this thread at all.

"Honey, we are not circumcising the child"

"why???"

" because some guy on the internet says so"

[6strings]

Elephant trunks.

[m_bisson]

Ant eater

[SirWanker]

Elephant trunks.


Ant eater

dillweedin' tallywacker :P

[coppermica]

the child should be the same as the father.

[FoXy]

Oh God, this thread went totally out the window. Everyone knows I'm not mature right? Isn't that the point of this exercise... the internet... to just say whatever you want and feed into the trolls who feel the need to try to control everything?

Some people just have far too much time on their hands, no life, and get off on internet researching, being "right" all the time and trying to prove that everyone else doesn't know jack. There are plenty of randos on the internet who sit back and feel real good about themselves, smiling, feeling like they "won" the battle of the day. Meanwhile, some of us come and go and just roll our eyes thinking, "wow, I'm really glad I have other things that in my life that actually matter, other than living on an internet forum". Yawn. Maybe I'll come back on in a week or 2, when I feel an itch of boredom at work and feel like reading some internet banter.
loki

I won't bother to check this back, this thread has beyond exhausted it's usefulness to the OP or anyone else.

[CloudPump]

Oh God, this thread went totally out the window. Everyone knows I'm not mature right? Isn't that the point of this exercise... the internet... to just say whatever you want and feed into the trolls who feel the need to try to control everything?

Some people just have far too much time on their hands, no life, and get off on internet researching, being "right" all the time and trying to prove that everyone else doesn't know jack. There are plenty of randos on the internet who sit back and feel real good about themselves, smiling, feeling like they "won" the battle of the day. Meanwhile, some of us come and go and just roll our eyes thinking, "wow, I'm really glad I have other things that in my life that actually matter, other than living on an internet forum". Yawn. Maybe I'll come back on in a week or 2, when I feel an itch of boredom at work and feel like reading some internet banter.
loki

I won't bother to check this back, this thread has beyond exhausted it's usefulness to the OP or anyone else.

I can't remember who said it, but a wise person once said: "if you want to always be right, you have to be willing to change your mind"

-Geoff

[fruitloops]

I can't remember who said it, but a wise person once said: "if you want to always be right, you have to be willing to change your mind"

-Geoff
That was me.Thanks.

[m_bisson]

Everyone knows I'm not mature right? .

http://alltheragefaces.com/img/usercreated/50345c92491ad.png