LoL @ Target

[SomeGuy]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/target-canada-files-for-creditor-protection-plans-to-close-all-stores-1.2901618

LoL well that didn't last long.



Target says it plans to discontinue all operations in Canada and seek protection from creditors, less than two years after opening to much fanfare.

In a release early Thursday, the U.S. retail chain said it will close all its locations in Canada. There are 133 stores across the country with about 17,600 employees.

The company launched in Canada in the spring of 2013.

But after high expectations, the chain failed to deliver right out of the gate as customers faced higher-than-expected prices, and empty shelves as the retailer had problems with its distribution chain.

Target lost almost $1 billion in its first year in Canada, and while the losses have shrank since then, the chain is still losing money daily.

Executives repeatedly promised they would get it right, but ultimately decided to pull the plug.

"After a thorough review of our Canadian performance and careful consideration of the implications of all options, we were unable to find a realistic scenario that would get Target Canada to profitability until at least 2021," CEO Brian Cornell said in a release Thursday, explaining the justification for the shutdown.

Target says it filed an application in a Toronto courtroom for protection under the Companies’ Creditors Arrangement Act.

The federal law allows companies that can't pay their debts the ability to restructure themselves. Without it, the companies and individuals that an insolvent company owes money to can technically start seizing assets. But because Target has applied under CCAA, that won't happen here yet.

The company is seeking the court's permission to set up a $70-million fund to ensure all employees affected by the move get at least 16 weeks in severance pay. The stores will remain open while the company completes the liquidation process.

"Your efforts have been extraordinary, and absolutely nothing about our decision to exit diminishes your hard work and dedication," Cornell told employees in a letter on Thursday, a copy of which has been obtained by CBC News.

Target said the decision to close shop in Canada will cost between $500 million and $600 million in cash from the U.S. parent's bottom line, but results in a writedown of about $5.4 billion from an accounting perspective in the upcoming fourth-quarter earnings.

[Aitch]

Haha ouch.

[Mr Wilson]

They did it to themselves. This lesson in failure should be taught to any business class.

Shame, my wife and I really like their Stockyards location.

Wonder what will go into the soon empty anchor stores.

[jswift79]

never set foot in their store and i leave near SQuare One Mall lol

i'll be on the look out for the 50% - 60% liquidation sale lol

[cwp_sedan]

Shame to all of their employees really.

They definitely came in too strong.

[Squisher]

Wow, that's a lot of big empty retail space. I dislike large box stores, but I sure don't like to see this happen.

[S.F.W.]

They did it to themselves. This lesson in failure should be taught to any business class.

Shame, my wife and I really like their Stockyards location.

Wonder what will go into the soon empty anchor stores.

Agreed they did it to themselves. Primarily, they thought they could bring the exact business model they use in the US to Canada. Part of that was their distribution issues. Regularly having empty shelves was bad.

[CarLadyLisa]

Not surprised either. They should have asked Canadians what they wanted and built their business model around what we want to see in a store. Don't force your American ways on us! lol

IMO I truly liked Zellers. They only thing about it was the stores were always messy for some reason and not a lot of staff. What I did love about it was every time I bought something is was almost always on sale even if it didn't say it. Then on my bill it said 'You Saved $$$' I love seeing that. They should have taken what was originally Canadian and made it better.

I went to Target a few times. Once to see what it was all about, left with a Latte. The other times were to get into the mall. No good sales to catch my eye.

Don't most businesses lose money in the first few years or something?

[S.F.W.]

Don't most businesses lose money in the first few years or something?

Yes, but they were losing 1 Billion a year, and best case forecast had them breaking even in 2021.

[jay93]

No surprise here, the target store has been boosted as an awesome store for deals and good prices bit actually don't deliver that here.

[XTOTHEL]

Looks like they didn't...
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
meet their target.
YEEEEEAAAAAAAH!

[cwp_sedan]

Looks like they didn't...
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
meet their target.
YEEEEEAAAAAAAH!


Overdone already and they only announced it this morning... :/

[Noobster12]

Time to bring back Zellers.. :thumbsup

I do miss Zellers and it was cheaper from what I can remember..

[cwp_sedan]

Let's be honest...Zellers was crap too. Everyone is just pissy because they expected a US Target shopping experience here and it was never going to happen. If Zellers came back from their disastrous bankruptcy, everyone would want them gone just as fast.


I barely ever found anything I liked at Zellers. I always seemed to find stuff at Target.

[Pacman]

Zealots was better

[Cyclic]

When Target first opened, I went with the gf to check out what the big deal was about and everything was more expensive than Walmart. My gf and her friends love Target but I've been dragged there 2-3 after the couple of years and always thought how they managed to stay open. For such a big store, they don't have that many shoppers. We have about 3-4 locations where we live and I tend to ask the girls why they like there so much, it's like a ghost town. They would just say "whaaat, tonnes of people shop there." Clearly they were wrong lol...

[fruitloops]

Bout time. I was sick of them thinking they can stick stop signs anywhere they want.

There's a massive 2 story, underground parking target that literally just opened in Winnipeg. Wonder what they are gonna do with it.

[CarLadyLisa]

Yes, but they were losing 1 Billion a year, and best case forecast had them breaking even in 2021.

Ouch!

[Kiewan]

Prices were not great. Didn't bother returning.

[CarLadyLisa]

Let's be honest...Zellers was crap too. Everyone is just pissy because they expected a US Target shopping experience here and it was never going to happen. If Zellers came back from their disastrous bankruptcy, everyone would want them gone just as fast.


I barely ever found anything I liked at Zellers. I always seemed to find stuff at Target.


They had great stuff for kids and Moms like me. Went into Target for shoes.....nothing for either of us. Target is certainly more trendy, but it didn't really work out.

[cwp_sedan]

They had great stuff for kids and Moms like me. Went into Target for shoes.....nothing for either of us. Target is certainly more trendy, but it didn't really work out.

To each their own. :)

[ice512]

Feel sorry for all the employees though...I've a couple of friends who work at HQ and they need to look for new jobs.
There are gonna be 17k more ppl relying on EI for a while...:(

[tweak_s]

I have to feel for the employees, from the stores all the way to HQ. Whoever decided to come into a new country with a giant footprint and small (in comparison) population and open up 100+ stores within 2 years without sizing up their competitors needs to get the ax quick. This could totally have been avoided if a proper risk assessment was done and therefore planning.

They had SO much hype on their side - it could have been great - to the point where all their competitors actually "braced" for them, and they came in not guns blazing.. but not having guns at all. OK, I"ll chuck their pricing between the US and here with currency, but there is no reason they need to be more expensive than Walmart and NOT have any stock? I can't believe a company like that would allow such poor supply chain management for 2 years.... It was almost as if they set themselves up for failure by opening up a ton of boxes without a way to get stock there properly.

For the record, I am a huge US Target fan, and I actually enjoy the Canadian ones except for the lack of stock factor. I like the atmosphere (and shoppers..) a lot better than Walmart and it seems the employees cared more than the average Walmart clerk which was refreshing. For the atmosphere, the store look and feel (cleaner) and experience, I was even willing to spend a few more bucks.

Its a shame really but there's no way to move on when upper management was clueless at launching. What a fail.

[Noobster12]

"5 Reasons Why Target Failed In Canada."

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/5-reasons-why-target-failed-in-canada/ar-AA8cvHt?ocid=iehp

[DDUKI]

http://mobilesyrup.com/2015/01/15/sony-confirms-plans-to-close-all-canadian-stores/?utm_content=bufferf2fa9&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

and now Sony is closing all Canadian stores....

[fruitloops]

Target is trying to get 16 weeks of pay for each employee because they are losing their jobs. 16 weeks is more than enough to find a new job. If anyone goes on EI because of this, they either need to get a better resume or get their ass off the couch.

[asyed]

Went into the one at the upper canada mall.

It was so empty and understocked. Maybe if they actually had something worthwhile to sell they wouldnt have failed so hard.





Supposedly theres a Nordstorm opening up in yorkdale... curious to how that will end up.

[CloudPump]

I've never been to a Target, now it looks like I never will.

I only went to Wal-Mart for the first time in my life on Monday, I don't think I'll be going back.

-Geoff

[Scottobot]

I've never been to a Target, now it looks like I never will.

I'll be on the lookout for some sweet clearance sales.

[jswift79]

Sony Canada is closing all it's stores too lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/15/sony-canada-closing-stores_n_6480572.html

[Aitch]

Target is trying to get 16 weeks of pay for each employee because they are losing their jobs. 16 weeks is more than enough to find a new job. If anyone goes on EI because of this, they either need to get a better resume or get their ass off the couch.
Depends. Canadian economy is getting pretty shaky these days.

[DualSoul]

Seems I'm in the minority, but I'm sad to see them go. Mostly because I scored a lot of YMMV clearance deals for electronics/batteries/clothing, etc.

[fruitloops]

Depends. Canadian economy is getting pretty shaky these days.
McDonald's is always hiring.

[Jackal]

I liked Target. Too bad. Wasn't a fan of Zellers. Understaffed and messy although I went on occasion.

[m_bisson]

Shame to all of their employees really.

They definitely came in too strong.

They should have pulled out before coming.

[Cab0oze]

I liked Target. It was like walmart, but instead of having XXXXL only for clothing, they had good quality slim fit stuff. Only store I've ever found slim fit collared shirts (made out of good material) for <25$. Fitted shirts are a rarity as is.

Guess I'd better stock up now...

Only crappy thing about target was that the shelves were frequently empty.

[Default User]

Zellers was great - at least for the diner food and the grape drank that they sold.

I feel no ways about Target leaving.
WalMart is destroying 75% of businesses out there - so it came to no surprise to me.

Sony is closing up shop. SEARS is done. The Bay is trying to re-brand themselves...

eCommerce (Amazon) and low profit margin chains (WalMart and Dollarama) are going to kill the economy.

Thousands of people are losing their jobs - and that's the saddest part.

[CloudPump]

<SNIP>

eCommerce (Amazon) and low profit margin chains (WalMart and Dollarama) are going to change the economy.

<SNIP>

Fixed.

The world is a changing place and always has been.

History is littered with new ideas, products and options that have "killed" the economy. Yet we're all still here.

Gutenberg and his printing press killed the transcribing economy.
Bell's telephone killed the telegraph economy.
Edison's filament lightbulb killed the gaslamp economy.
Nitrite fertilizers killed the farming economy (in that oversupply eliminated the need for 90% of farmers).
Cars killed the transportation horse-breeder economy.
TV killed the radio economy.
Internet killed: video stores/publishing/music/TV/ oh so many others.

In reality, the economy survives and adapts.

-Geoff

[S.F.W.]

Fixed.

The world is a changing place and always has been.

History is littered with new ideas, products and options that have "killed" the economy. Yet we're all still here.

Gutenberg and his printing press killed the transcribing economy.
Bell's telephone killed the telegraph economy.
Edison's filament lightbulb killed the gaslamp economy.
Nitrite fertilizers killed the farming economy (in that oversupply eliminated the need for 90% of farmers).
Cars killed the transportation horse-breeder economy.
TV killed the radio economy.
Internet killed: video stores/publishing/music/TV/ oh so many others.

In reality, the economy survives and adapts.

-Geoff

So what you are saying is video killed the radio star ?

[SirWanker]

Fixed.

The world is a changing place and always has been.

History is littered with new ideas, products and options that have "killed" the economy. Yet we're all still here.

Gutenberg and his printing press killed the transcribing economy.
Bell's telephone killed the telegraph economy.
Edison's filament lightbulb killed the gaslamp economy.
Nitrite fertilizers killed the farming economy (in that oversupply eliminated the need for 90% of farmers).
Cars killed the transportation horse-breeder economy.
TV killed the radio economy.
Internet killed: video stores/publishing/music/TV/ oh so many others.

In reality, the economy survives and adapts.

-Geoff

But is it sustainable?
The amount of raw materials is dwindling ( yes, there is recycling but how much is really recycled and capable of being recycled ?) yet the demand for cheap @$$ products is insatiable.

As for Target, never understood the fascination with it. To me, they were cleaner Zellers.

[Default User]

History is littered with new ideas, products and options that have "killed" the economy. Yet we're all still here.


-Geoff

BARELY

Take Detroit for example.
Once a rich automotive border town - turned the first US city to claim bankruptcy. Homes being traded for the next iPhone

I agree with change and innovations for the better - but as you mentioned, internet has killed a lot of industries.

Sears, Target, Sony, Blockbuster, HMV, Sam the Record Man, Zellers, etc....and countless smaller mom and pop shops - couldn't compete with this change.

even the advancements in fuel efficient, hybrid and electric vehicles is taking a toll on the oil supply - killing the Canadian dollar.

[SirWanker]

even the advancements in fuel efficient, hybrid and electric vehicles is taking a toll on the oil supply - killing the Canadian dollar.

Not really a factor.
More like the Saudis manipulating the prices by deliberately flooding the market with crude. They do not have the added processing costs associated with the tar sands oil plus deep pockets to wait out the other oil producers.

[Aitch]

BARELY

Take Detroit for example.
Once a rich automotive border town - turned the first US city to claim bankruptcy. Homes being traded for the next iPhone

I agree with change and innovations for the better - but as you mentioned, internet has killed a lot of industries.

Sears, Target, Sony, Blockbuster, HMV, Sam the Record Man, Zellers, etc....and countless smaller mom and pop shops - couldn't compete with this change.

even the advancements in fuel efficient, hybrid and electric vehicles is taking a toll on the oil supply - killing the Canadian dollar.

The downfall of Detroit isn't really linked to the online economy. It's a history of under-investment, the rich people moving out of town, and the general downfall of the Big 3 automakers in the city.

The impact of fuel efficient vehicles on oil prices, and thus the Canadian dollar, is minimal at best. Fuel consumption started dropping in the US due to ever-increasing fuel prices over the past few years, which combined with domestic shale oil production, led to an oversupply situation and the consequent drop in oil's market price. Then OPEC decided it didn't want to lose market share and decided to keep the market over-supplied. That hurts the oil sands, our economy, and in turn, our dollar. Hybrids don't really effect this situation in any significant way.

[Default User]

The downfall of Detroit isn't really linked to the online economy. It's a history of under-investment, the rich people moving out of town, and the general downfall of the Big 3 automakers in the city.

The impact of fuel efficient vehicles on oil prices, and thus the Canadian dollar, is minimal at best. Fuel consumption started dropping in the US due to ever-increasing fuel prices over the past few years, which combined with domestic shale oil production, led to an oversupply situation and the consequent drop in oil's market price. Then OPEC decided it didn't want to lose market share and decided to keep the market over-supplied. That hurts the oil sands, our economy, and in turn, our dollar. Hybrids don't really effect this situation in any significant way.

I didn't mean specific to online transactions - just a rebutting clouds "change is inevitable and we're still here" statement LOL

But the outsource to Mexico manufacturing did kill Detroit because the big 3 thought that "changing" plant locations will be beneficial.

I do still think the number of fuel-efficient vehicles is also contributing to the oversupply

[tweak_s]

BARELY
....
I agree with change and innovations for the better - but as you mentioned, internet has killed a lot of industries.

Sears, Target, Sony, Blockbuster, HMV, Sam the Record Man, Zellers, etc....and countless smaller mom and pop shops - couldn't compete with this change.



I know the topic got moved a bit to oil and hybrids after this original post but I thought it would be nice to point out that HMV out of those stores above, had a drastic change seen in stores becuase they noticed that they had to change to keep with the times. While it would be foolish and ignorant to state that they are anywhere near as powerful as they ever were, they've not only staged a comeback from the brink but are now quite the popular store. They've added non typical music stuff into their stores, made stock quite handily available and therefore have really helped boost their sales. This is something I think the other companies failed to try to do: see what others are doing well and make your own flavour.

[Firefox444]

I preferred the Target store environment to that of Wal-Mart, etc. However, as others have pointed out here, a lack of stock and no real deals means that I only went there twice in the entire time it was in Canada. I think I only bought something once, and that was more due to convenience than anything else.

Regarding the economy, as others have pointed out, changing economic trends usually aren't as simple as "It's good" or "It's bad". It's usually just "different" (at least in the long run). In the short run, though, I certainly feel for the people impacted.

[kreebs29]

My wife and I were talking about this over dinner tonight and she made an interesting point. She had said that Target should have had Timothy's Coffee instead of Starbucks.
Starbucks is the snob coffee crowds joint, whereas Timothy's is for the person that wants to enjoy a relaxed atmosphere but not the quick in-out of Timmies or the "I want a cup of very complicated coffee" store. Many consumers here in the Great White North expected Target to be like it is in the U.S. : an attainable option for the people who don't want to pay big box/niche store prices for products, like Zellers did. Many people I have talked to and as many of the media have stated, Target was like an upscale Wal-Mart. The prices were not any different than any other retailer and that was one of the reasons it faltered in less than 2 years. They were in trouble within the first 6 months.

[loki]

My wife and I were talking about this over dinner tonight and she made an interesting point. She had said that Target should have had Timothy's Coffee instead of Starbucks.
Starbucks is the snob coffee crowds joint, whereas Timothy's is for the person that wants to enjoy a relaxed atmosphere but not the quick in-out of Timmies or the "I want a cup of very complicated coffee" store. Many consumers here in the Great White North expected Target to be like it is in the U.S. : an attainable option for the people who don't want to pay big box/niche store prices for products, like Zellers did. Many people I have talked to and as many of the media have stated, Target was like an upscale Wal-Mart. The prices were not any different than any other retailer and that was one of the reasons it faltered in less than 2 years. They were in trouble within the first 6 months.

they are an upscale wal-mart, but their store placement (old zellers) doesn't allow for that type of store to thrive.

[kreebs29]

they are an upscale wal-mart, but their store placement (old zellers) doesn't allow for that type of store to thrive.

I agree Loki. Hence the demise. Like many others here on TM3 and around my work never really understood the draw to Target. Too much hype for nothing.

[Cab0oze]

they are an upscale wal-mart, but their store placement (old zellers) doesn't allow for that type of store to thrive.

Don't understand what you mean - what store placement would have helped? To me, they just expanded far too fast and then couldn't stock their shelves or adjust when they noticed the market wasn't reacting as they had anticipated because they were too big.

[rajin929]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/target-s-package-for-ex-ceo-matches-package-for-all-17-600-canadian-workers-1.2927893

how fitting....

[Aitch]

Don't understand what you mean - what store placement would have helped? To me, they just expanded far too fast and then couldn't stock their shelves or adjust when they noticed the market wasn't reacting as they had anticipated because they were too big.

Exactly. You can put a crap store in the middle of the Eaton Center and it will still fail.

[Kiewan]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/target-s-package-for-ex-ceo-matches-package-for-all-17-600-canadian-workers-1.2927893

how fitting....

The golden handshake LOL. That CEO is a scumbag. "So what if all my stores close, I get 60M."

[CarLadyLisa]

I don't understand how a company can have so much debt yet provide a severance. That leaves the general public to pay for it...eventually of course. I hear in Milton the town will be liable because they granted them the Bankruptcy protection. It will costs us all.
This is really crappy of Target.

[crystal8484]

They had the best bikini's everrrrr.

[Aitch]

They had the best bikini's everrrrr.

*comment redacted to protect future self*