better all seasons

[///M]

We all know that the stock Goodyears are crap. Would it do me any good to upgrade to better all seasons and skip winter tires altogether? (e.g. Michelin Pilot Sports, which are supposedly really good in both summer and winter)

I\'m having second thoughts as to whether I really need winter tires as I do mainly highway and city driving. I don\'t even drive in resdiential areas with thick snow and park in an underground garage at home and school so getting out isn\'t a problem at all.

[midnightfxgt]

nothing beats a winter tire in winter, nothing.
nothing beats a good summer tire in summer.

There are pros and cons, such as a lower cost (as your buying 1 set of wheels) but at the same time, you loose summer, and winter capability. It is easy to say you drive mostly hwy etc, but sometimes we beat the plows to the roads, and thats when it counts. I can think of more than a few times trying to get to work/school when the plows hadent touched the road.


Keep in mind that braking will also be enhanced by winter tires. and thats half the battle. :)

~JOHN

[majic]

as midnightfx stated.. all seasons are what they are.. mediocre in wet.. mediocre in snow.. mediocre in dry.. mediocre in everything..

lemme ask u this.. do u buy a camera phone for the camere or for the fact that it can make phone calls? aahh.. i thought so.. that 0.3mp camere just SUX :p

all these \'all-in-one\' gadgets (tires alike) TEND to be pretty crappy at all (most aspects) of what they are set out to do..

saying that the RSAs MIGHT be okay in the winter.. and from what i hear their dry traction is pretty good.. but they suck on wet pavement.. the choice is yours.... i personally have never owned a separate set of tires.. and this being my first own car .. i will give it a shot..

HTH

--majic

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (http://www.tiretrends.com/tire_info.php3?detailID=11765)

Sumitomo HTR+ (http://www.tiretrends.com/tire_info.php3?detailID=10810)

Toyo Proxes 4 (http://www.tiretrends.com/tire_info.php3?detailID=11182)

All \"high performance all seasons\" ... ALL way better than the RS-Ass

[idreamofmazda]

When I was a kid, I loved the winter, couldn’t wait for the snow so I could toboggan down the hills with my friends, skating, playing hockey, snowball fights, you name it, and best of all, when the busses were cancelled so no school. Now what do I have? Shoveling? No fun at all, except for winter tires, and a chance at a little fun again, ripping past the SUV’s at the lights, and watching people spinning their wheels where the speedometer states 80k/h, but they aren’t moving. I’m getting winter tires soon, can’t wait for the snow, bring it one baby, nothing’s going to stop me. :p

[///M]

Originally posted by MajesticBlueN


Michelin Pilot Sport A/S (http://www.tiretrends.com/tire_info.php3?detailID=11765)

Sumitomo HTR+ (http://www.tiretrends.com/tire_info.php3?detailID=10810)

Toyo Proxes 4 (http://www.tiretrends.com/tire_info.php3?detailID=11182)

All \"high performance all seasons\" ... ALL way better than the RS-Ass

The RS-As are bad enough in dry conditions - so I\'d assume they\'d be equally bad or worse in winter. Would these offer a significant improvement (I\'m not comparing them to winter tires) in winter and in the dry?

Another advantage of using all seasons for me is that I have difficulty in finding a place to store my winter tires / wheels.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by autoexe


The RS-As are bad enough in dry conditions - so I\'d assume they\'d be equally bad or worse in winter. Would these offer a significant improvement (I\'m not comparing them to winter tires) in winter and in the dry?

Another advantage of using all seasons for me is that I have difficulty in finding a place to store my winter tires / wheels.

the Pilot Sport A/S has received very good reviews on Tire Rack (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+ A%2FS)

they have a 7.3/10 rating for Snow Traction and, IIRC, they come standard on the G35 Coupe.

the Sumitomo HTR+ also have a 7.2/10 rating on Tire Rack (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Sumitomo&tireModel=HTR%2B) but the other aspects are a bit lower rated than the Pilot Sport A/S ...given the fact that the HTR+ are probably 1/3 to half the price of the Pilot Sport A/S, it\'s a pretty good deal. ...Tire Rack, they did a comparison of Performance All-Season tires and the Sumitomos were close in all aspects (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testResultsModel.jsp?tireMake=Sumitomo&tireModel=H TR%2B)

With regards to the Pilot Sport series from Michelin, i had the Pilot Sports on my maxima and they were absolutely phenomenal..driving in a torrential downpour felt like I was driving on dry pavement.

[majic]

also .. based on user opinions.. the Pirelli PZero Nero M&S (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Pirelli&tireModel=PZero+Nero+M% 26S) have a pretty good rep (and a 400/A/A UTQG).. also they are MUCH cheaper in a comaprable size (they don\'t seem to have the 205/50/17)

225/45-17 WR Speed Rated Price Each: $123
vs. the michelins
225/45-17 YR Speed Rated Price Each: $175
or stock size 205/50-17 YR Speed Rated Price Each: $173

EDIT: oh yah.. the pirellis have much nicer tread too :p


rest of UHP A/S (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=UHPAS)

[Xenon]

Toyo Proxies aren\'t All Season Performance are they?

Or maybe I\'m getting confused... There\'s more than one type of Proxies right?

I was going to get Toyo Proxies TS-1\'s for my 3 when the RS-A\'s run down... Then for sure I\'ll be buying winter tires.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by Xenon


Toyo Proxies aren\'t All Season Performance are they?

Or maybe I\'m getting confused... There\'s more than one type of Proxies right?

I was going to get Toyo Proxies TS-1\'s for my 3 when the RS-A\'s run down... Then for sure I\'ll be buying winter tires.

Toyo Proxes 4 are Toyo\'s newest UHP A/S tire (replacing the gawdawful Proxes FZ4)

the T1-S are a summer only tire...and a fantastic tire choice.

[///M]

I read a few reviews and the Toyos don\'t seem all that great in snow...they\'re even better in the dry than the Pilot Sports though.

Decisions, decisions...I want something that will upgrade both my winter and summer performance (compared to the Eagles). I wonder if Kumho makes anything like that? Kumhos are usually cheap and perform well.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by autoexe


I read a few reviews and the Toyos don\'t seem all that great in snow...they\'re even better in the dry than the Pilot Sports though.

Decisions, decisions...I want something that will upgrade both my winter and summer performance (compared to the Eagles). I wonder if Kumho makes anything like that? Kumhos are usually cheap and perform well.



check out the Kumho ASX (http://www.tiretrends.com/tire_info.php3?detailID=11313)

Tire Rack review (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=ECSTA+ASX&vehic leSearch=false&partnum=05WR7EASX&fromCompare1=yes)

[///M]

\" Lured by the low price and the speed rating--I made a mistake and hate these tires. They drift on the road--worse than the decrepit Eagle RSAs they replaced.\"

Doesn\'t sound promising. LOL.

edit:
Also - the Toyo Proxes seems like a very good tire in dry conditions (looks good too!)...I wonder if they\'re any better then the Eagles in winter? If they are I\'ll probably go for them.

[///M]

ok...after further thought I have come to a \"solution\"...

the Toyo Proxes 4 don\'t come in my fitment, but seem like a good all season tire

I\'ll upgrade my rims (puts flamesuit on), and sell my stockers so that I can use those, as an all in one solution and I won\'t have to bother with winter/summer tires at all.

the question is...how bad is winter really for rims, provided I clean them often? I\'m sure plenty of people out there run stock alloys in winter no problem...but I don\'t want to ruin a nice new set of rims (maybe Work Emotion or Gram Lights 57C...or I\'ll just get a cheap set of Konigs)

or alternatively...I\'ll just get the Pilot Sports which are expensive, but come in my fitment

[billyfo]

salt from snowblow will damage all types of rims, yes including steelies but not as heavy as alloy wheels. if you wash the rims very often, then you slow down the process of damaging.

[bluntman]

Once you damage the clearcoat on the rims (hitting the curb or driving into a snowbank) then it\'s game over, the metal is now exposed to the elements, salt and water and soon your rims will rust.

[MZ3_GS]

It is best to have two sets of tires. Rubber can\'t be engineered to be plyable at the ranges of temperatures we see in Canada. It isnt just the SNOW but the temperature that affects the performance of the tire.

If anyone is in the market for an All Season Tire I suggest going with HP; UHP tires have horrible tread life and have a lot of road noise.

A good passenger all season tire is Yokohama Avid H4/V4! or BFGoodrich Traction T/A

[Xenon]

I thought our rims are Aluminum? Aluminum doesn\'t rust...

[MZ3_GS]

Aluminum Rusts. Lets call it oxidation for technicality.

The diference between Aluminum oxidation and Iron oxidation is that with Iron the OXIDE will fall off and expose new metal to the elements. Thus the iron will just keep eroding. With Aluminum the oxide doesn\'t tend to fall off and expose new metal thus it\'ll shouldn\'t erode away like IRON.

[bluntman]

Aluminum oxide (rust) article (http://www.popsci.com/popsci/how2/article/0,20967,693558,00.html)

Here\'s where this thread is heading...

http://ca.geocities.com/alegardo@rogers.com/offtopic.gif

[Xenon]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS


Aluminum Rusts. Lets call it oxidation for technicality.

The diference between Aluminum oxidation and Iron oxidation is that with Iron the OXIDE will fall off and expose new metal to the elements. Thus the iron will just keep eroding. With Aluminum the oxide doesn\'t tend to fall off and expose new metal thus it\'ll shouldn\'t erode away like IRON.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification...

now Back on Topic.... I think eventually I will be getting a set of Summer Tires and a Set of Winter Tires on steelies. It just seems to be the most logical for me. that way my rims (whether stock or aftermarket) aren\'t exposed to the winter elements. Not to mention prolonged life of Both sets of tires (since they will be driven only half the time compared to one set of all seasons).

that\'s just my opinion, Seeing that this is my first car, i\'m not an expert or anything.

[MZ3_GS]

Originally posted by bluntman


Aluminum oxide (rust) article (http://www.popsci.com/popsci/how2/article/0,20967,693558,00.html)

Here\'s where this thread is heading...

http://ca.geocities.com/alegardo@rogers.com/offtopic.gif

Alright. I\'ll post something about tires.

All-Season tires are a compromise in every type of weather as someone said already.
Misconception about winter tires are that, they plow the streets and thus I don\'t need winter tires. Well, thats incorrect because, rubber on the tire can not be formulated to be at its optimal operating temperature for such a large range. i.e. all seasons will be too hard in the winter and winter tires will be too soft in the summer.

Thus a decent winter tire is better than any all season during winter. Word of advice though, as the temperature decreases the air is denser and your car will burn more fuel. Adding winter tires will just increase fuel consumption. Expect to lose 15% of milage per tank with in winter if you\'re running winter tires.

Also, those thinking of buying high performance winters, unless taking corners at high speed is necessary in your daily drive I wouldn\'t recommend buying HP winters. Winter Tires already have reduce life on them compared to All-Seasons, buying HP makes the life expectancy of the tire even lower. But it is your money so buy as you please....

And do drive less aggressively with winters, they tend do have a softer tread and sidewall(esp if you\'re down sizing for winters). Hard Acceleration off the line and cornering can feather the tread.

Futher questions? Post here :D

[majic]

Originally posted by MZ3_GS

Alright. I\'ll post something about tires.

All-Season tires are a compromise in every type of weather as someone said already.
Misconception about winter tires are that, they plow the streets and thus I don\'t need winter tires. Well, thats incorrect because, rubber on the tire can not be formulated to be at its optimal operating temperature for such a large range. i.e. all seasons will be too hard in the winter and winter tires will be too soft in the summer.
agreed..


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
as the temperature decreases the air is denser and your car will burn more fuel. Adding winter tires will just increase fuel consumption. Expect to lose 15% of milage per tank with in winter if you\'re running winter tires.


yes and no.. if u kept your all-season the same psi as you had in the summer then yes.. it would be underinflated as gases expand when heated.. so it being already expanded it would contract in the cooler months causing poor tire wear and poor gas mileage.. so u have 2 solutions.. reinflate your COLD all seasons to the proper PSIs.. or put on winters and you know that since u drive in winter time only they will be about right..

you should re-check tire pressures often anyway.. for the 2 resaons stated above.. tire wear and fuel economy.


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
Also, those thinking of buying high performance winters, unless taking corners at high speed is necessary in your daily drive I wouldn\'t recommend buying HP winters. Winter Tires already have reduce life on them compared to All-Seasons, buying HP makes the life expectancy of the tire even lower. But it is your money so buy as you please....

i would agree if we\'re talking about Ice/snow tires (there are many categories just like in summer tires.. performance, UHP, max.. etc) so yeah.. the softer the snow tire, the more it will wear out and the ice/snow tires are just like that. BUT then there are tires designed for the colder temps that are NOT made of such soft compound.. Nokians (4get which ones) and hankook W300s.. they are very well performing winter tires with a supposedly great tread life. those tires usually fall in the H and V rating categories whereas WS-50s (blizzaks) are Q rated (or T) meanning .. designed for slower speeds (ie. ice) and having a softer compound - wearing out faster but providing superior grip on such slippery surface


Originally posted by MZ3_GS
And do drive less aggressively with winters, they tend do have a softer tread and sidewall(esp if you\'re down sizing for winters). Hard Acceleration off the line and cornering can feather the tread.

Futher questions? Post here :D

of course.. winter is winter.. the tires will give you traction but it\'s still up to you to be responsible and really nowhere it says to drive the car for what the tire is rated for :p

[MZ3_GS]

Originally posted by majic

yes and no.. if u kept your all-season the same psi as you had in the summer then yes.. it would be underinflated as gases expand when heated.. so it being already expanded it would contract in the cooler months causing poor tire wear and poor gas mileage.. so u have 2 solutions.. reinflate your COLD all seasons to the proper PSIs.. or put on winters and you know that since u drive in winter time only they will be about right..

you should re-check tire pressures often anyway.. for the 2 resaons stated above.. tire wear and fuel economy.



No really, in winter your car will burn more gas than in the summer. We\'ve had winter tires before. It killed the milage by 50 KM per tank on the Corolla...It is a result of the tire flexing more thus requiring more work to rotate it.

and yes you should be checking tire pressures every 2 weeks.

[majic]

i found a theread on M3F (http://mazda3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=5366&highlight=snow) that talks about the crappy years and some snows/all seasons/summers.. pretty much sums up what we\'ve discussed already..