View Full Version : Engine Hesitation at 3-4K?
majic
10-27-2004, 10:07 PM
Courtesy of M3F (http://www.mazda3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=13062)
that\'s a pretty shitty ordeal.. i hope ours run great :D
anyone come accross this on their 3?
bluntman
10-28-2004, 08:22 AM
Was that Fabian?
MajesticBlueNTO
10-28-2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by bluntman
Was that Fabian?
senna 27 has/had a Winning Blue Sport GT.
hmmm...2 different people each with a different problem regarding the 2.3L...
mazda3ride
11-03-2004, 07:52 AM
I have noticed a bit of hesitation on my car. I went to test drive 2 2005 models and they do the same thing. I am not sure if this is normal. Has no one else experienced this? I find this very odd. Can someone test this out on their car please? In first gear rev it up to 3k then punch it. There is a slight hesitation then it picks up. Maybe someone can take me for a spin in their car at the next meet that is NOT experiencing this behavior.
miggiddy
11-03-2004, 01:18 PM
I just tried it and didn\'t notice anything, but I\'m not exactly sure what to expect either. Perhaps I didn\'t hammer it down, the car was still cold.
bubba1983
11-03-2004, 02:25 PM
its fuel injection....not a carb car...im sure we all know fuel injected vehicles there will always be a slight delay....
miggiddy
11-03-2004, 03:24 PM
Just finished reading this poor guy\'s epic journey and well I guess I\'ll have to let the car warm up to do this test.
MajesticBlueNTO
11-03-2004, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by bubba1983
its fuel injection....not a carb car...im sure we all know fuel injected vehicles there will always be a slight delay....
in addition, the 3 has the electronic throttle plate...press the accelerator pedal down and the plate does not open as you press the pedal...the computer must decide \"oh wait, he/she wants to accelerate, time to relay the message to the throttle motor\"
mazda3ride
11-04-2004, 12:57 PM
Why then do I notice this only in 1st and 2nd and not 3rd or 4th?
super_vixen
11-04-2004, 07:11 PM
Ive noticed this lagging on my car since I got it....it was a worry for awhile, but then I figured it was normal...
but with my sometimes often bad gas mileage, I wonder if its more than that?
Xenon
11-04-2004, 08:52 PM
I don\'t find any hesitation....
although the power band of the car does come after 3000 RPM.... is that what you people are talking about?
super_vixen
11-04-2004, 09:46 PM
No...I find that if i\'m already travelling in 3rd gear (not that it matters, because i\"m in an auto anyways), but say I\'m accelerating on the highway from a slower speed, when you press on the accelerator it doesn\'t respond right away. It just sits there and lags. It happens to me every morning when I get ont he 401 and sometimes in city traffic too. I\'ve found it happens a lot when I\'m trying to pass a vehicle also, when I need the power the most and no matter how much you push the pedal it just doesn\'t kick in for a couple seconds. It\'s really annoying, but I\'ve had it happen on my z24 also, so didn\'t think it was overly abnormal.
snipe
11-04-2004, 11:22 PM
Originally from http://www.mazda3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=13062
1) When accelerating from a stop in first gear, once the rpm has climbed to the mid range value of 4,000 rpm, if the throttle is held momentarily at this speed, simulating waiting for traffic to pick up speed, and then quick acceleration is applied, there is a noticeable flatspot/hesitation for approximately 1 second before the engine catches up with the operators demand. This flatspot/hesitation was only noticeable in first gear but was easily duplicated on every stop and go.
There is no hesitation on my car. I treid it. That guy has a manual so the only way to duplicate it on my wanna-be-manual is to be in manual mode in 1st gear. So from stop I accelerated to 4000 rpm and then just held it there for a second, then floor it. I\'m pretty sure this is what he\'s talking about. I did this test in both conditions, right when it\'s cold and when it warmed up. Both are fine.
Do not get this confused with the hesitation of being in auto and flooring it when you\'re in 4th or 3rd and there\'s a lag when the auto tranny drops it for you to 3rd or 2nd. Every auto tranny car lags when you floor it and it drops down a gear. I don\'t think that\'s what this guy was talking about. Remember, he drives manual.
I made a video and compressed it to DivX for your viewing pleasures. Note, for safety reasons I had someone else hold my digi-cam. :)
http://marek.home.dyndns.org/test.avi
firstmazda
11-05-2004, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by super_vixen
...I find that if i\'m already travelling in 3rd gear (not that it matters, because i\"m in an auto anyways), but say I\'m accelerating on the highway from a slower speed, when you press on the accelerator it doesn\'t respond right away.
I\'ve got AT too, but when i\'m gonna pass a car, I switch over to manual and
drop a gear (or two :hoho ) so I don\'t really notice the hesitation much.
But I have experienced what happens to you too.
mazda3ride
11-05-2004, 07:29 AM
Mine is 2.3L, 5 Spd. I will take you guys for a spin at the next meet and show you what I am talking about.
billyfo
11-05-2004, 05:50 PM
I don\'t have this problem, it goes straight to 5k w/o hesitation.
Newlook
11-09-2004, 10:30 PM
I noticed that today when I ripped out of my street today. Normal acceleration up to 3000 then all of a sudden more power kicked in, and I felt the extra pull to the 4K mark before it shifted.
MajesticBlueNTO
11-09-2004, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by Newlook
I noticed that today when I ripped out of my street today. Normal acceleration up to 3000 then all of a sudden more power kicked in, and I felt the extra pull to the 4K mark before it shifted.
cold dense air + rich fuel map = extra power in the winter
Saphress
11-12-2004, 04:51 PM
I dunno... I drive a manual and completely agreed with that... there are days where I feel like my car is zoomhacking..... as in hesitating in second gear. Even in cold weather.... I find it hesitating. I feel like I\'m driving with the parking break on or something, so I keep checking..... and I know it\'s down.... and at a stop I\'ll pull it up and put the parkin brake back down on purpose just to see if it was put down properly. GRrrrrrrrr.... Maybe I should be calling up Avante?
Hmm, I hope everyone is doing these type of experiments when the engine is fully warmed up??
The weather is colder now so you will get a bit more zip out of the engine, however, if you\'re putting in regular fuel (according to the manual) it might not be adequate enough for this type of weather... The ECU could be kicking back something...
I haven\'t noticed a problem yet.. you feel a bit more kick as soon as you get above 3000rpm, but it\'s a straight pull up to red line (which I haven\'t hit yet, but close enough..)
A few things I always do for my own piece of mind... I never use regular fuel... I always use plus.. Going to super or even Ultra doesn\'t help any and elivates your wallet a hell of alot more... But the plus does help with power and economy... so i\'ve tested... Another thing you might want to do is make sure you do the grounding mod... Just an extra added ground source.. I\'ve heard in a few peoples cases where it helped... Other than that the car behaves the way it\'s suppose too...
Maybe you guys are getting use to the car... Remember, its a sporty saloon. It\'s not a sports car...
Lates,
david3
11-18-2004, 03:02 PM
He posted another update. They won\'t let him buy another one. Bastards.
david3
11-18-2004, 03:04 PM
and by that I mean 10 days ago he did. :\\
Saphress
11-18-2004, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Neo
Hmm, I hope everyone is doing these type of experiments when the engine is fully warmed up??
The weather is colder now so you will get a bit more zip out of the engine, however, if you\'re putting in regular fuel (according to the manual) it might not be adequate enough for this type of weather... The ECU could be kicking back something...
I haven\'t noticed a problem yet.. you feel a bit more kick as soon as you get above 3000rpm, but it\'s a straight pull up to red line (which I haven\'t hit yet, but close enough..)
A few things I always do for my own piece of mind... I never use regular fuel... I always use plus.. Going to super or even Ultra doesn\'t help any and elivates your wallet a hell of alot more... But the plus does help with power and economy... so i\'ve tested... Another thing you might want to do is make sure you do the grounding mod... Just an extra added ground source.. I\'ve heard in a few peoples cases where it helped... Other than that the car behaves the way it\'s suppose too...
Maybe you guys are getting use to the car... Remember, its a sporty saloon. It\'s not a sports car...
Lates,
Ummmmmmmmm.... no... was used to the car a long time ago. The car hesitates sometimes..... I was driving home today and it hesitated on me again.... I also found that when I put the clutch down and took the shift outta gear and slammed it back it, it went back to normal.... in which I find is quite annoying. so WTF!!!!!!
If it\'s not a grounding problem it\'s an ECU thing.. Having to disengage the clutch and gear and then slamming it back in suggests there\'s something strange happening... Maybe it\'s injecting too much fuel when you\'re light on the throttle... Have you checked the grounding situation?? I know in our Protege for some reason the engagement of the tranny and the engine isn\'t smooth... It came like that from the factory.. We had the dealer look at it once but they didn\'t really help.. They did swap the tranny out for a new one just to test a few things... It was a bit smoother... But it still wouldn\'t like to be in gear under light throttle applications... It\'s either pedal to the metal or no pedal at all... Strange... It shouldn\'t apply to this because the Protege is the 2.0l model... This shouldn\'t be happening with the 2.3l 4 cylinder... New engine and all...
I\'ve finished breaking in the car and the car seems to be pulling a bit harder than before... It feels a bit loose now... Which is the way I\'m use to driving... There\'s a nice whistle/hiss coming from the car when you go through 2nd and 3rd gears under 4000rpm... Almost sounds like a turbo... But far from it... :D
Lates,
MajesticBlueNTO
11-19-2004, 12:54 AM
if you read through the many pages on his (senna\'s) original thread, you\'ll see that the 3 is programmed to have an overly rich fuel map (same with the 6 and the rx-8).
the dumping of more fuel (as you increase the throttle plate opening by going 3/4 throttle), will cause it to be even more rich and may cause a hesitation as the amount of air tries to catch up with the amount of fuel.
if you put the clutch down, you\'re taking the load off the engine and allowing the revs to climb quicker, thus bringing more air in...when you bring the clutch back up, the a/f ratio isn\'t as pig rich as it was before you put the clutch down.
that\'s my guess....bottomline is that the 3 can benefit from an intake and/or some ecu tuning to bring the a/f ratio as close to ideal as possible.
In that case, we need to get a CAI.. LOL :D
Well, I noticed a small hesitation when I had my 6... but if we found out for sure that the ECU is dumping more fuel than is really needed, we should all be moving up to CAI\'s! LOL
Anyone up for a groupbuy?? ;)
lates,
MajesticBlueNTO
11-19-2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Neo
In that case, we need to get a CAI.. LOL :D
Well, I noticed a small hesitation when I had my 6... but if we found out for sure that the ECU is dumping more fuel than is really needed, we should all be moving up to CAI\'s! LOL
Anyone up for a groupbuy?? ;)
lates,
it\'s one of the reasons why the CAI is giving 10+ hp on the 3...
with the CP-E maf customizer module and CAI, the mazda6 is getting close to 30 additional hp. :)
if you look at your tailpipe, you\'ll notice a heavy build-up of black soot. the reasoning behind the rich fuel mixture (i can\'t remember all the details) boiled down to the fact that the EPA mandated that catalytic converters last 100,000 miles....and, somehow, the rich fuel mixture accomplishes this.
We have to put an end to this black soot thing! LOL :D
Where\'s the groupbuy for the CAI?!?! ;)
Lates,
Saphress
11-24-2004, 09:51 AM
Ummm... so you\'re saying that this is quite normal??? Or should I be mentioning this when I go in for my 8k?
MajesticBlueNTO
11-24-2004, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Saphress
Ummm... so you\'re saying that this is quite normal??? Or should I be mentioning this when I go in for my 8k?
doesn\'t hurt to mention it :)
kl7402001
11-28-2004, 08:55 PM
Hey new to the site .. this is my first post ... i have a CAI in my 3 ...and i don\'t feel any hesitation ..I think he might be right ... I m mad tho .. u mean we could save on gas$ those bast$#ds ...
Saphress
11-29-2004, 01:37 PM
(sigh)..... I gotta wait till next spring.... Grrrrr..... Money money money... Hehehehe
Abstraction
11-29-2004, 01:57 PM
hey... friend of Saphress\' i thought i\'d add my two cents.
Firstly, i own an RSX - so excuse my ignorance if i\'m wrong about a lot of things, since i dont\' really know too much about the Mazda3 engine.
Anyhow.... in terms of the ECU, it\'ll hold a short term and long term fuel trim, typically the ECU adapts to the diving conditions and the aggression of the driver, but with the change in air temperature and density, the long term fuel trim might be a little fubar. quickest way around this (at least in hondas) is to pull the ECU fuse for a few seconds, put it back in, then idle the car for 10 minutes with no accessories, radio, ac, etc turned on. this will give the ECU a new baseline A/F map. I do this every time i add a mod, clean my filter, or every season when i notice significant temperature change. This not only gives me better mileage, but i find the car performs a lot better as well.
All cars naturally run a little rich in stock form - it\'s just the safe thing to do from the manufacturer\'s view point. and with that being said, there\'s really no reason to run a higher octane gas than recommended in the manual (87?). Running a high octane gas really won\'t do anything but cost you a little more money every fill up. The Mazda engine is what 10.5:1 compression? it\'s not low, but it\'s not really that high either, nor is it a particularly high output engine for a 2.3L. some people get higher octane because they feel it gives them better power or is better for their car, etc. it\'s more of a placebo, some studies have even shown that it decreases your mileage! My RSX isn\'t a type-s, and i put 87 octane in it all the time unless i\'m going to the track, the only differences i\'ve found between gasses is that Sunoco gas (even 87 octane) typically runs better for me.
CAIs - yep, a CAI is a great mod for any car and will definitely open up the engine to breathe a little easier, especially since it\'s already running rich. Of course, that extra 10HP isn\'t exactly available at all RPM, it\'s just a peak gain. i haven\'t seen a dyno of a CAI on a Mazda3, so i wouldn\'t be able to say whether it helps the hesitation problem or not .. BUT. keep in mind that adding a long tube CAI to any car will definately increase the lag time between hitting the throttle and the engine responding. with the intake further away from the throttle body, the air\'s gotta travel a longer distance - personally i find the drive by wire throttle pretty atrociously unresponsive as it is, so adding a CAI might give you the perception that you\'re lagging even more! Although it\'s a happy trade off, i know on my car i love the sound of it, and it really opens up and flies in the top end.
well that\'s my thoughts from a non-mazda3 owner... hopefully i\'ll see you guys at a meet one day :)
Abstraction
11-29-2004, 01:58 PM
As a side note - you\'re really upset about your car running rich, couldnt\' you just slap on an SAFC (or whatever works with the mazda3)?
Saphress
11-29-2004, 02:14 PM
(laugh) This guy is my mentor :P Welcome to my world Abz
Saphress
11-29-2004, 11:14 PM
this is gonna sound definately gurlie... but what the HECK is that?!?!? SAFC?
(laugh) Anyway/ on a side note: remember a time where you started to bug me about me posting on the RSX forums? Now do you understand? :):sarc
MajesticBlueNTO
11-29-2004, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by Saphress
this is gonna sound definately gurlie... but what the HECK is that?!?!? SAFC?
Super Air Fuel Controller (http://www.apexi-usa.com/electronics_safc.asp)
hope that helps.
Saphress
11-29-2004, 11:50 PM
Originally posted by MajesticBlueN
Originally posted by Saphress
this is gonna sound definately gurlie... but what the HECK is that?!?!? SAFC?
Super Air Fuel Controller (http://www.apexi-usa.com/electronics_safc.asp)
hope that helps.
Hehee... thanks... I think my brain is just numb :P
MajesticBlueNTO
11-30-2004, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by Saphress
Hehee... thanks... I think my brain is just numb :P
mine still hasn\'t thawed out from saturday :hoho
i\'m waiting for this - Superchips Custom Tuning ECU Programmer (http://www.mazda3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=13411)
it will have more functionality than the S-AFC with this quote below being the kicker:
You will have the ability to manually adjust the air/fuel by 10% and the ignition timing by +/- 2-5 degrees.
However, we will be creating tune programs for modifications that you will be able to download to your programmer.
So chances are, when you go to install the I/H/E and you have the programmer, we will already have a tune specifically for I/H/E on a Mazda3, that you can download from our website.
Nikolas
_________________
Nikolas
VP of Draxas.com
Abstraction
11-30-2004, 10:24 AM
too bad you guys don\'t have anything like the Hondata KPro - it\'s just a badass programmable ECU that you can tune with a laptop.
Originally posted by MajesticBlueN
Originally posted by Saphress
Hehee... thanks... I think my brain is just numb :P
mine still hasn\'t thawed out from saturday :hoho
i\'m waiting for this - Superchips Custom Tuning ECU Programmer (http://www.mazda3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=13411)
it will have more functionality than the S-AFC with this quote below being the kicker:
You will have the ability to manually adjust the air/fuel by 10% and the ignition timing by +/- 2-5 degrees.
However, we will be creating tune programs for modifications that you will be able to download to your programmer.
So chances are, when you go to install the I/H/E and you have the programmer, we will already have a tune specifically for I/H/E on a Mazda3, that you can download from our website.
Nikolas
_________________
Nikolas
VP of Draxas.com
Correct me if I\'m wrong, but isn\'t the stock airbox pulling air from the front of the car??
If that\'s the case, all we really need to do is change the filter to a more breathable unit like a K&N...
Getting a tuneable ECU is the best solution, but by no means the cheapest solution... I think going to that extreme would require you to get something worth tunning, like a turbo or something...
The stock maps should be enough.. I think making it a bit more breathable will help with the rich mixture being pumped into the engine...
Lates,
Abstraction
11-30-2004, 09:11 PM
while it may be pulling air from the front of the car (as do many other stock cars), it\'s not exactly a simple air box, there\'s a lot of tubles, chambers and baffling that makes the car both smoother and quieter but also reduced the flow rate prior to the air even hitting the filter.... it\'s one of the reasons the Mazda3 is so impressively quiet, esp. at idle.
a CAI is typically an open air cone, so you get a /much/ higher cfm rate than just a breathable K&N filter. I had a K&N drop in filter on my old stratus, and to be honest it did little, if anything.
Originally posted by Neo
Correct me if I\'m wrong, but isn\'t the stock airbox pulling air from the front of the car??
If that\'s the case, all we really need to do is change the filter to a more breathable unit like a K&N...
Getting a tuneable ECU is the best solution, but by no means the cheapest solution... I think going to that extreme would require you to get something worth tunning, like a turbo or something...
The stock maps should be enough.. I think making it a bit more breathable will help with the rich mixture being pumped into the engine...
Lates,
Saphress
12-01-2004, 02:14 AM
(sigh)... Mo money.... :( Mo Problems..... Guess I gotta wait till Spring once again :(
kl7402001
12-01-2004, 06:17 PM
yah Saphress .... its all about $$ ... and there is not enough of it ...
This has nothing to do with the post but ... is that u in the pic?
bluntman
12-01-2004, 08:26 PM
Originally posted by kl7402001
yah Saphress .... its all about $$ ... and there is not enough of it ...
This has nothing to do with the post but ... is that u in the pic?
Check the group photo (http://torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=1131) taken at meet #7.
kl7402001
12-04-2004, 12:01 AM
some ppl put up chicks they like and or gfs pics ... but that really is u ... cool .. i saw the meet pic .. there is quite alot of ppl .. when is the next one?
Saphress
12-04-2004, 12:08 AM
(laugh) Yeah..... well I guess your question was answered/
Originally posted by kl7402001
some ppl put up chicks they like and or gfs pics ... but that really is u ... cool .. i saw the meet pic .. there is quite alot of ppl .. when is the next one?
The next \"official\" club meet won\'t be until the snow has dissipated a bit. However, keep an eye on our \"TM3 Meets\" section for any mini meets that might go on during the holidays and in the early new year.
new2mazdas
12-07-2004, 05:30 PM
my new 05 is experiencing this as well, but seems to be getting better, will let u know in a few weeks, if by my first oil change it hasnt improved then i\"ll let the dealer know..
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