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Melenium
12-02-2004, 12:27 AM
I just put on the winter boots, and I thought I\'d put together some pointers for anyone else looking to do the same.

First, tools:
1. A torque wrench.
Some say its not a must, but I\'d say it is. Overtighten the nuts and it\'ll cost you new discs. Undertighten them and your wheel could come flying off. I made do with the bendy kind, but I plan to change it for the clickly kind. Its kind of tough to put on the right torque consistantly and it will make things a bit easier. $25 for the bendy kind, $99 for the clicky kind. Be sure to get one in FOOT Pounds, NOT inch pounds. Most 1/2\" ones are in foot pounds; the 3/8\" are usually inch pounds.
2. A 21mm LONG socket.
Most socket sets come with a 19mm and a 22. Not good enough. You\'ll round the nuts. Nobody wants to have their nuts forcefully rounded. Sears has a 21mm socket, sold individually. Came out to just over $10, taxes in. Its a long kind instead of the regular shorter ones so that you have clearance to swing the torque wrench. Shorter ones were $2 cheaper. Canadian Tire doesn\'t seem to stock it (21mm sockets) period. I also used a 3\" extension on top of the long socket for a bit more clearance and it made things a tad easier. If you get only a regular (short) socket, you\'ll need the extension.
3. A jack.
You can use the one from the trunk, but its a bit iffy. A decent hydraulic 2-ton will run you about $25. You can get away with a 1-1/2 ton too.
4. Jack stands.
I didn\'t use them, but its a gamble. If you trip over the jack while the wheel is off, your car may drop and bad things could happen. It may be worth the $17 as \"insurance\". Don\'t blame me if bad stuff happens if you don\'t use it (heck, don\'t blame me either way!)
5. Latex or disposable gloves.
I really wish I had a pair. Your hands will get filthy with all the muck on the tires such as brake dust and whatever roadkill you may have run over for the past 2 seasons.

Prep.:
Before beginning, take a good look at the tires you plan to install. Make sure all the rims are in good shape and well seated, and that there isn\'t damage to the tire. I found that my steelies had a layer of orange dust/sand on the inside, I don\'t think it was rust, but all the same clean it out. Clean the insides well because any stones or dirt could fall onto your discs, get jammed into the pads and cause grooves in the discs. The 5 minutes you spend clearing the wheels could save you a few hundred dollar brake job down the road.

When moving the wheels, lie them flat when you\'re not dealing with them right away to prevent them rolling away. When lying them flat, put them down gently to avoid damaging the rim.

Check the air pressure of the replacement tires before you put them on. If they\'re less than about 25-27psi you\'ll probably want to pump them up a bit before dropping your cars weight on them.

Process:
Park on level and sturdy turf, concrete or asphalt. Block the tires that you\'re not taking off right away (put a small 2x4 infront/behind to prevent rolling). Put the car in Park or 1st gear (if 5sp). Pull up the parking brake. This stops the wheels from spinning while you\'re trying to losen or tighten the bolts.

For those of us who.. uhm.. don\'t work out at the gym, watch your back-- if you\'re dealing with steelies, they are heavy and awkward to get lined up and on to the lugs.

Before jacking up the car, losen the bolts on the wheel you\'re about to swap. When I say losen, I mean turn them about a quarter turn or less. Put the jack under the jack point (check the manual); they\'re marked fairly well on the body itself. Make sure you put the jack under the vertical part indicated and not the flat member behind it.

Jack it up until the tire just lifts off the ground. Loosen the bolts in a star pattern, starting with the locked bolt if you have wheel locks. Don\'t take them all the way out, one by one-- rather a couple turns, then move onto the next (in a star pattern), until they\'re all off. Make sure gunk (dirt/water) doesn\'t get into the bolts.

Remove the wheel, make sure the disc is clear of any debris; make sure the replacement wheel where it mounts is also free of any gunk. Put it on and push all the way to the back with grinding the lags as little as possible. Wipe the bolts (lags) with dry paper towel to make sure they\'re clean. Spin on the bolts until they hit the wheel. Hand tighten them in a star pattern. Try to jiggle the wheel a little to make sure that it seated just right every so often (not a mad amount to make the car fall off the jack, but just a little wiggle). After that tighten with the torque driver in the star pattern, torquing each bolt first to about 20ft-lbs in the star pattern, then to about 40ft-lbs, then to 60ft-lbs, then finally to about 80-90ft-lbs. Don\'t tighten a single bolt all the way up-- work in the pattern and only a bit at a time!

When I took off the stock ones from the factory they were tightened to about 90ft-lbs, so I tightened the winter ones to 85ft-lbs.

Lower the jack slowly. Don\'t just drop it!

Block the wheel, that you\'re done with, move onto the next.

Once all are done, head to the gas station to put in some air. The door says to inflate to 32psi all around. The manual says to pump in another 4.5psi to each tire if they\'re winter tires, so I pumped all mine up to about 35psi total.

If the wheels you removed were especially dirty, clean them first and make sure to dry them. Put them in bags and store horizontally to avoid flat spots. The bags protect them from winter salt and stuff if you\'re storing them in the garage; if you\'re storing them inside, they keep the house cleaner ;).

Its essential to retorque the nuts after you\'ve done a bit of driving as they can work their way loose. Some places recommend after driving 25km and again after driving about 100km. Better to be safe than sorry.

For more reading, I recommend checking out the TireTrends install manual (http://www.tiretrends.com/InstallManual.pdf). If you are not comfortable doing this sort of thing or haven\'t done it before, best get a pro to do it. It\'ll probably run you back about $20 per set.

Enjoy :)

Edit: added link to TireTrends.

MajesticBlueNTO
12-02-2004, 01:48 AM
good info.

another tip is to put anti-seize on the hub so that the rims don\'t seize on the hub.

i had the stock rim do that to me after the dealer rotated the tires at the 16,000km service

Melenium
12-02-2004, 02:03 AM
Maybe we should get this stickified? :)

Anti-seize may not be a bad idea.. you just have to be damn careful not to get any onto the lugs or nuts. Another option is just some rustcheck that you put on yourself, but you have to be just as careful. Either way the best bet may be to just paint it onto the back of the wheel with a brush or cloth so that it doesn\'t get everywhere and protects wherever there is contact.

Alternately, to dislodge a wheel when it has become seized, usually just a good kick with your knee to the tire is enough to free it.

On another note, should I be protecting the hub in any way during the winter months? Wouldn\'t want them to rust and then have the OEM rims not fit on perfectly in spring.

MajesticBlueNTO
12-02-2004, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by Melenium

Anti-seize may not be a bad idea.. you just have to be damn careful not to get any onto the lugs or nuts. Another option is just some rustcheck that you put on yourself, but you have to be just as careful. Either way the best bet may be to just paint it onto the back of the wheel with a brush or cloth so that it doesn\'t get everywhere and protects wherever there is contact.

Alternately, to dislodge a wheel when it has become seized, usually just a good kick with your knee to the tire is enough to free it.

On another note, should I be protecting the hub in any way during the winter months? Wouldn\'t want them to rust and then have the OEM rims not fit on perfectly in spring.

your studs come with some form of anti-seize on them from the factory. there is no issue with getting anti-seize on the studs or lugs...the lugs will not come loose with anti-seize.

the only thing you\'d have to watch out for is tightening it...as the lugs will turn a bit more with the anti-seize as opposed to without them.

the only place you\'d have to watch out for is the part of the rotor where the pads make contact. if you get anti-seize on that, wipe it off and spray with some brake cleaner.

Coaster
12-02-2004, 06:42 PM
You also should mark the tire with a piece of chalk so you can tell which corner of the car it was on. That way you put them back on in the spring on the same corner & keep the tire rotation schedule in sync.

Kager
01-17-2005, 12:30 AM
I think to have a torque wrench is a must~ otherwise you will ended up breaking your wheel nuts:)
and make sure you tighten with torque wrench, not airtools. It happened to me once, the guy used air tool to tighten my wheel nuts, then i couldn\'t get it off, so i ended up breaking my wheel nuts.:(

bubba1983
01-17-2005, 01:19 AM
...u said nuts!!!

firstmazda
11-16-2005, 01:31 AM
Originally posted by Melenium


Maybe we should get this stickified? :)


BUMP
Sticky-icky-icky for the noobs?

01AWW18T
11-16-2005, 09:08 PM
I just wanna ask, what\'s the purpose of loosening the lugs in a star pattern? I know the importance of tightening them - to balance/equalize the pressure, but why do I need to do this when I loosen them?

Also, I think you should hand tighten the lugs while the wheel is off the ground and then lower the car before you use your torque wrench on the lugs to do the final tightening. Trying to tighten the lugs while the car is in the air is kinda dangerous.

edit: one more thing, be sure to mark down what milege you took your wheels off!

Domokun
11-17-2005, 01:12 AM
Great write up! But I just want to add a suggestion ... use a breaker bar to untighten lug nuts or any nuts for that matter. Don\'t just use the torque wrench because it takes considerably more force to untighten. This way, the torque wrench won\'t come out of spec. ;)

FLIPDADY
11-17-2005, 09:24 AM
Stuck!

ds2chan
11-17-2005, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by Melenium
Once all are done, head to the gas station to put in some air. The door says to inflate to 32psi all around. The manual says to pump in another 4.5psi to each tire if they\'re winter tires, so I pumped all mine up to about 35psi total.


awesome write up.. but why is it you should inflate the tires a few extra psi in the winter time?? I was just going to let them sit at 32 psi.. thanks..

billyfo
11-17-2005, 10:21 PM
if you want to store your summer tires, it is better to inflate higher pressure than OEM spec, to have longer life for the tires casue of lower temp. could be harden the rubber.

david3
11-17-2005, 11:22 PM
Safe to just re-torque on the ground right? (after 25, 100, or whatever many km you are going by) No need to throw her up in the air to do this, correct?

ds2chan
11-18-2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by billyfo


if you want to store your summer tires, it is better to inflate higher pressure than OEM spec, to have longer life for the tires casue of lower temp. could be harden the rubber.

oh.. I thought he was talking about the winter tires.. hmmm, I never checked the air in my summer tires.. damn.. oh well.. too late now.. they\'re already cleaned and set aside..

jdanielsg
11-20-2005, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by david3


Safe to just re-torque on the ground right? (after 25, 100, or whatever many km you are going by) No need to throw her up in the air to do this, correct?

if this is neccessary.... then how is it done when you get your tires changes at the shop or dealer... obviously they dunt tell you that or ask you to come back.........

ds2chan
11-20-2005, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by jdanielsg



Originally posted by david3


Safe to just re-torque on the ground right? (after 25, 100, or whatever many km you are going by) No need to throw her up in the air to do this, correct?

if this is neccessary.... then how is it done when you get your tires changes at the shop or dealer... obviously they dunt tell you that or ask you to come back.........

I hope I didn\'t misunderstand ur question/comment here..

you should tighten the bolts (don\'t put all your weight into it; just \"tight enough\" to hold the wheel as far back as possible) in a star pattern while the car is in the air.. after lowering ur car then you should put all your weight into tightening the bolts.. when the car is in the air if you put all your weight into tightening the bolts the car may move and fall off the stands..

at the garage they use a lift and those air pressure guns (not sure what they\'re called).. so they can tighten the bolts while the cars are lifted..

david3
11-20-2005, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by jdanielsg
Originally posted by david3 Safe to just re-torque on the ground right? (after 25, 100, or whatever many km you are going by) No need to throw her up in the air to do this, correct? if this is neccessary.... then how is it done when you get your tires changes at the shop or dealer... obviously they dunt tell you that or ask you to come back.........

For new rims or steelies I\'d say it would be smart to check (and everyone in the tire biz has pretty much implied the same thing?). What happens if you get a bad steelie and part of it bends where one of the lugs is and thus isn\'t having sufficient force being applied?

david3
11-20-2005, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by ds2chan after lowering ur car then you should put all your weight into tightening the bolts.. when the car is in the air if you put all your weight into tightening the bolts the car may move and fall off the stands.. at the garage they use a lift and those air pressure guns (not sure what they\'re called).. so they can tighten the bolts while the cars are lifted..

No you didn\'t misread my question.

However, I do things differently, one corner at a time. I do torque them up when that corner is in the air. There is no ****ing way the car will fall down or otherwise move. You shouldn\'t be putting \"all your weight\" into tightening the lugs. They only need ~90ft-lbs(I\'d look up the exact figure mazda says but I\'m lazy) of torque, which isn\'t a lot compared to what you could be applying.

wtom
11-21-2005, 01:04 PM
IIRC between 65 ft-lbs to 93 ft-lbs. I tightened my nuts to 85 ft-lbs and when the torque wrench clicks, I give it a few more clicks. It\'s not far from a casual tighten with the breaker bar and your own normal strength (ie. not really flexxing it).

TIP on using the the factory lug nut wrench to loosen/remove the nuts - remove the handle from your aftermarket jack and use that as additional leverage, sliding it over the wrench handle. It worked for me.

majic
11-21-2005, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by wtom

I tightened my nuts to 85 ft-lbs and when the torque wrench clicks, I give it a few more clicks. It\'s not far from a casual tighten with the breaker bar and your own normal strength (ie. not really flexxing it).

TIP on using the the factory lug nut wrench to loosen/remove the nuts - remove the handle from your aftermarket jack and use that as additional leverage, sliding it over the wrench handle. It worked for me.

lol.. after the first remark.. all of the sudden, your whole response got so dirty :D :p

wtom
11-21-2005, 01:24 PM
My mind rents from the gutter. :d


Originally posted by wtom

I tightened my nuts to 85 ft-lbs and when the torque wrench clicks, I give it a few more clicks. It\'s not far from a casual tighten with the breaker bar and your own normal strength (ie. not really flexxing it).

TIP on using the the factory lug nut wrench to loosen/remove the nuts - remove the handle from your aftermarket jack and use that as additional leverage, sliding it over the wrench handle. It worked for me.

LOL

Cosmo77
12-01-2005, 12:26 AM
My main concern with people changing their own tires would be this. PLease break the nuts loose on the ground beore jacking it up, and yes do it in a \'star\' pattern. This ensures that the rim does not have too much pressure on any side when it is loosening. PLease put a jack stand under the car for pete\'s sake! Oh and PLEASE ( I think someone mentioned this) mark the tires from where they came off!!! Myself and probably every other tech out there will have NO sympathy for you if we (or you) put hte tires on in the spring and they are on the wrong side of the car and start causing weird \'wear\' patterns in the tread or having weird steering \'pulls\'...so just do that much. The anti-seize idea on the face of the rim that contacts the rotor is a good idea, the steel on steel with all the mositure is slowed down a bit by the anti-seize.

Another good idea when your changing from snow to summers or vis-versa is an alignment. I have been doing alot of snow tire packages in the last few weeks...more than I would like too (we techs get a little tired of tires...haha sorry about the pun) and have been doing alot of alignments, and have found that ALOT of 3\'s out there need a little tweaking on the front end, mainly toe issues. Seems some of you guys have been hitting some potholes and curbs:) Anyways lets face it folks, these snow and summers aren;t cheap...so $65-80 to check your alignment is not THAT bad. Oh btw, just cause your steering wheel is centered it doesn\'t mean that something might be out of whack think if one side is toed out an equal amount as the other side is toed in...there won\'t be a pull, BUT it will still wear the tires.

Now tighten the wheels \'snug\' when the wheel is in the air, then torque the wheel (cross pattern again) to spec. (around 85-90 ft/lbs is safe).

Now about pressures...personally I would stay around the 32psi mark...although lower would be better (28-30)...but lets face it how often do people check their pressures, and how many check it ever time the temp rises and falls 10 deg. lower pressure gives a larger \'footprint\' on the ground.

Anyways one last little comment, to the person who started this \'topic\' and I quote...

5. Latex or disposable gloves.
I really wish I had a pair. Your hands will get filthy with all the muck on the tires such as brake dust and whatever roadkill you may have run over for the past 2 seasons.

aww poor baby

For those of us who.. uhm.. don\'t work out at the gym, watch your back-- if you\'re dealing with steelies, they are heavy and awkward to get lined up and on to the lugs.

oh god I\'m getting wheapy now

Ok Ciao for now

Your friendly tech

Cosmo

TheProfessor
03-29-2006, 10:56 AM
Alright, gonna swap out my steelies this week-end and I want to do it myself. I was wondering if anyone could answer the following for me:

1) Is this the correct 21mm socket I need: Sears 21mm socket (http://www6.sears.ca/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?categoryId=32314&catalogId=10001&st oreId=10001&langId=-1&productId=158487515)

2) Rather than using a torque wrench, could you use a power drill that has the same capabilities (i.e. you dial in the necessary amount of torque and it will not drive beyond that)? I\'m not even sure that my drill has enough \'juice\' to do the job, but I was just curious.

azn_outlaw
03-29-2006, 11:26 AM
I would say that you have everything down..or you could use the supplied tools in the trunk...meaning the tire iron...

it would be a good idea to get a torque wrench...too make sure you are applyin the proper torque specs to the lug nuts.

Another thing, if this is the first time you are doing this, this happened to me, but the wheels were jammed on solid...

this was mentioned in the guide....so be prepared to do a lot of kicking and swearing...mine were stuck solid and got frustrated, got the job done in about 1 and a half hours..

its highly recommended to put the car on Jackstands..

good luck and hope that helps

TheProfessor
03-30-2006, 09:30 AM
I went to Sears yesterday to pick up a torque wrench and the 21mm socket. To my surprise the bendy type torque wrench was on sale from $25 to $17, so if anyone\'s interested now\'s a good time to go pick one up ;)

wtom
03-30-2006, 10:25 AM
Spray anti-seize on the hub and the lug nut threads before putting your summers back on.

Have a rubber mallet nearby to tap at the seized wheel(s) (from the \"inside\" instead of from the \"outside\") instead of kicking.

TheProfessor
03-30-2006, 10:37 AM
Can I use WD40 as the anti-seize? Also, I could have sworn that I have ready articles that say NOT to spray anti-seize on the lug nut threads....gonna have to check that one out.

silversurfer
03-31-2006, 10:48 AM
hey guys, I am in the process of swapping my winters back to the stock RS-A\'s and noticed that the tire shop had marked my tires using Left and Right instead of Driver and Passenger. A couple questions:

1) Which side of the car is left and which side is right...doesn\'t it depend on whether you are viewing the car from the front or rear?

-I made the assumption that it was from the driver\'s seat perspective meaning left=driver and right=passenger. Don\'t know whether this is a good assumption.

2) Are the stock goodyear tires unidirectional? I didn\'t see any marking on the side of the tires but in the owner\'s manual the tire rotation diagram suggests rotating the tires front to rear only...not side to side in the typical cross pattern.

MajesticBlueNTO
04-01-2006, 12:55 AM
Originally posted by silversurfer


hey guys, I am in the process of swapping my winters back to the stock RS-A\'s and noticed that the tire shop had marked my tires using Left and Right instead of Driver and Passenger. A couple questions:

1) Which side of the car is left and which side is right...doesn\'t it depend on whether you are viewing the car from the front or rear?

-I made the assumption that it was from the driver\'s seat perspective meaning left=driver and right=passenger. Don\'t know whether this is a good assumption.

your assumption is correct. Left = driver, Right = passenger


Originally posted by silversurfer

2) Are the stock goodyear tires unidirectional? I didn\'t see any marking on the side of the tires but in the owner\'s manual the tire rotation diagram suggests rotating the tires front to rear only...not side to side in the typical cross pattern.


the RS-A aren\'t unidirectional (but they are asymmetric). follow the owner\'s manual and rotate front to back vs. the cross pattern.

Pogi
04-01-2006, 01:07 AM
I sorta want to change back to my RSA\'s tomorrow but I can\';t find my manual so i was wondering if anyone have pics of the jack points that would be great. I just took a look under the car and I saw an indentation of a round circular shape..sort of like a hockey puck.. right behind the front wheels and before the back wheels.. are those the jack points??

Skarbro
05-30-2006, 06:50 AM
I\'de like to add something here. The emergency jack in the trunk is NOT meant for regular use. If you are going to regularly jack the car, then get a proper hydraulic jack.

And like azn_outlaw said, PLEASE USE JACKSTANDS! If you don\'t have jackstands, then stick a loose wheel under the car as backup. If the jack fails, it will mess up your rim, but it will save you tons of $ in repairs on the rest of the car.

Skarbro
07-20-2006, 10:27 PM
Just for the sake of posting the official torque specs for the lugs...

1. When installing the wheels and tires, tighten the wheel nuts in a criss-cross pattern to the following tightening torque.

Tightening torque
88.2-117.6 N·m {9.00-11.99 kgf·m, 65.06-86.73 ft·lbf}

KenYork
07-20-2006, 11:09 PM
misleading title, i thought it meant changing the tire from the wheel.