Weird starting problem...

[rbart4506]

I\'ve had a problem over the last few weeks starting my car. This has only happened a handful of times, so it\'s not a constant thing. I\'ll get into the car and turn the key and everything will light up like normal, but the engine won\'t turn over. There\'s no sound at all, it\'s as if power isn\'t going to the starter. I have a 5spd and the clutch is pushed in and all lights are on the dash like normal. I usually end up trying a few times and the car will start fine after the 2nd or 3rd attempt. Once it starts everything is fine and the car runs perfectly. What I have noticed is that when this happens I usually have gloves because it\'s cold out. I started thinking that it might be the engine immobolizer not being able to register a signal from the key. I had heard that metallic things on your key ring could cause a problem, but didn\'t think a glove would be a problem. I started making sure that my fingers where at the end of the key, by the key ring, and the car was starting flawlessly....Then on Christmas Eve it did it again...This time it turned over and then stopped and then turned over and started. Again, it was like power was going to the starter and then was cut off for a split second and then sent again. Once the car started the CD player wouldn\'t work right, but the stereo was fine, I thought \"what the hell is going on here\". Once we got going I tried the CD player again and everything was fine. I did notice that the inside of the rear window was covered in frost and I started wondering if maybe the CD lense had the same problem and that maybe the immobilizer lense also was covered in frost and that\'s why it did the split second thing.

Has anyone else had little starting problems like this??

I really do think it\'s the immobilizer and it\'s inability to get a proper signal to allow the car to start...

I know I can call the dealer, but I know if the car isn\'t doing it consistently that it will be a royal pain for them to figure out what is wrong.

My only fear is that there is a real problem and that something dies when I\'m out in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night...

Thanks,
Rich

[teambedlam]

You probably have checked this already but I thought I\'d ask anyways.

Do you happen to have winter car mats in place.

I ask this because i have had my winter mats interfear with the cluth travel. It was enough thet the car wouldn\'t start unless i really pushed down hard.

Other then that i can\'t think of anything right now. Now it\'s time for gift opening round 2.

See ya

[firstmazda]

could it be that fuel pump problem they had early on?

[everfeb]

I\'ve had my fuel pump replaced. My problem before fuel pump replacement was
that the first time I started the car up for the day it started fine. On subsequent
starts that day-after the motor was warm-I sometimes had to crank for a longer
period of time before it fired up or sometimes I\'d have to crank it 2 or 3 times
before it would fire up. But you could always HEAR the cranking sound. RBART4506
says there is NO SOUND at all when trying to start car. So if it a fuel pump, the
symtoms are different than mine were. But who knows.
Got my new fuel pump a few months ago...so far so good...car starts great all the time
now. Regards
everfeb

[Melenium]

Maybe its the ghost of xmas past (or would it be future)? :p

Try putting your car key and fob on a separate ring and using only that to start the car. Its possible that metal from other keys or if you have a speedpass (Esso) or Shell easypay it could be confusing the CPU.

[majic]

Originally posted by Melenium


Try putting your car key and fob on a separate ring and using only that to start the car. Its possible that metal from other keys or if you have a speedpass (Esso) or Shell easypay it could be confusing the CPU.

good idea.. but i have both speedpass and easy pay and it starts no probs..

make sure to also press teh clutch in REALLY far (half a centimetre could make the difference!)

[mEtH]

I have had the problem with the CD player just happen to me actually this morning. Although I dont want to have to have it repaired because they will just take the unit and return it when it is fixed, probably 2 weeks later. Im not up for humming to myself.

Regarding the starting problem, I was just at Westowne and mentioned to them about my car having hard starts in the morning a couple of times under cold conditiones and after checking it out I need to get my fuel pump changed. Could be the same problem.

[black305]

I just read this in this weekend\'s Toronto Star Wheels section. Somebody was having a problem starting his car too and this was the letter he wrote. Could be the same kind of problem you\'re having.




Honest auto repair shops do exist


On a damp, cold day last month, I got into my car to drive to work and, although the engine turned over briskly, it would not fire.

I called the CAA and had the car towed to a CAA-recommended auto electric repair shop nearby.

The people there called me to pick up the car, explaining they could not find the reason for it not starting. The bill was $55, minus a CAA discount, for a total of $49.68.

I drove home, but the next day, a Saturday, the car would not start. I tried all that day and Sunday and arranged once again with CAA to tow me back to the repair shop.

On Monday, the shop called to say I needed a new fuel pump, which would cost $741. I told them I would pick up the car.

Since CAA recommended the shop and I was dissatisfied with it, CAA offered to tow me to another auto repair shop at its expense, for which it deserves full marks in my book. So I arranged to meet at the shop. When I picked up the keys I decided to try to start the car and it started. I was able to cancel the tow truck long before it arrived. I drove home.

The next day, Tuesday, I drove to Performance Concepts on the Queensway, east of Winston Churchill Blvd., in Mississauga where I have had work done before on my car, which resulted in satisfaction in workmanship and cost. I told Igor the story.

He called me later in the day and told me that the tests showed the fuel pump was performing to specification and did not require replacement. The main fuse box is located in the engine compartment. He cleaned the box and removed all the fuses, cleaned the receptacles and used a spray to improve electrical contact.

At this time of year, dampness can play havoc with the electrics on older cars and an honest mechanic worth his salt knows this and doesn\'t throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Strange, isn\'t it, that an auto electric repair shop wouldn\'t know this?

When I asked Igor for the bill, he wouldn\'t accept any payment. So I decided to write this letter to the Star showing my appreciation for Igor.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kenneth Green, Toronto

[jotazo]

Hi all,

My wife is having the same problem. Since x-mas that the car doesn\'t start at the first try most of the times. I thought I could have been the battery. Actually, the battery symbol goes on when it doesn\'t start at the first try. This seems to happen in cold and worm days (+10). However, it always start at the second or third try.
We may bring the car to dealer soon. If I know something new, I\'ll you guys know.

Thanks

[wtom]

jotazo, anything along the lines of \"bad fuel pump\"?

http://www.torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=886

[Eric]

I have had this problem now. On Saturday, during the snow storm. It was -20c and the my
Mazda3 would not crank.

It is definitely the immobilizer. It is not the fuel pump or battery.
The engine does not even try to crank. The immobilizer light flashes rapidly. For half an hour
that is all the car would do. I called for a tow and was told there was a three hour wait.
When I tried the car again a few minutes later. It started normally, no problems cranking.

This is a serious problem. My confidence that the car will start when I need it to is now low.

[rbart4506]

Originally posted by Eric


I have had this problem now. On Saturday, during the snow storm. It was -20c and the my
Mazda3 would not crank.

It is definitely the immobilizer. It is not the fuel pump or battery.
The engine does not even try to crank. The immobilizer light flashes rapidly. For half an hour
that is all the car would do. I called for a tow and was told there was a three hour wait.
When I tried the car again a few minutes later. It started normally, no problems cranking.

This is a serious problem. My confidence that the car will start when I need it to is now low.

Mine was ok this weekend...I\'ve been waiting for it to act up again because of the cold...I also think it is the immobilizer...I\'m assuming there\'s a lense, or something of that nature, that picks up the singal and that the cold/moisture causes a problem...considering my CD player craps out when it get real cold and the inside of my windows freeze up I\'m sure it\'s a moisture issue...

Rich

[Eric]

I called my dealership today, and they said that they had not heard of any immobilizer problems.

However on a similar thread on M3F;
Mazda3 / Mazda Axela Forum Index -> Technical / Model / Performance -> Powerplant - Sponsored by Draxas -> Stock Issues -> Weird no start (http://mazda3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=13272)

A user had this comment


I don\'t know if my salesman was reading this thread when I talked to him 5min ago or what.

They called me to check if I had any problems after owning the car for a week and I said that besides the tires needing to be better in snow, my only other concern was that the last few really cold mornings, I\'ve had to crank for (slightly)longer than I am used to (about 5-7sec).
His response, which I though was bogus, was that if it was not cranking at all it might have something to do with the immobilizer key needing to register for a minute at really cold temperatures. I guess according to this thread, that wasn\'t such a bogus response.

I posted a reply asking him to get more details from his salesman if possible.

[rbart4506]

Ok...Sounds like we might be getting somewhere with this odd problem...

[FLIPDADY]

Did you have another key cut? I haven\'t seen any problems yet with our immobilizers. The only hard start issue so far has been the fuel pump. Bring your car into the dealership and have it properly checked out.

[rbart4506]

Originally posted by FLIPSPEED


I haven\'t seen any problems yet with our immobilizers. The only hard start issue so far has been the fuel pump. Bring your car into the dealership and have it properly checked out.

Yup, that\'s the plan if it happens again consistently...Right now it\'s been fine and I doubt they will find anything out of the ordinary...At any rate the car is due for it\'s 24000km service in a few weeks so I will add that to the list of things for them to check out...

Rich

[murdock]

Originally posted by Eric

I have had this problem now. On Saturday, during the snow storm. It was -20c and the my
Mazda3 would not crank.

It is definitely the immobilizer. It is not the fuel pump or battery.
The engine does not even try to crank. The immobilizer light flashes rapidly. For half an hour
that is all the car would do. I called for a tow and was told there was a three hour wait.
When I tried the car again a few minutes later. It started normally, no problems cranking.

This is a serious problem. My confidence that the car will start when I need it to is now low.


The same thing happened to me, exactly as you described it. It was also last Saturday during the snow storm. The engine wouldn\'t crank with the immobilizer light flashing. I called Mazda Roadside Assistance, and the guy there said that there was a similar known issue to do with a flashing THEFT light (other Ford/Mazda models???). His solution was to lock the car with the key (not the remote) wait 15 minutes (!!??) and then unlock it with the key. Well I locked it and waited 5 minutes and it was so freezing cold that I couldn\'t wait 15 min. It didn\'t work so I just called for a tow and got a ride to my friends place while we were waiting. When I went back after an hour to meet the tow truck, it started on the first try.

Definite serious problem in the winter. Please post if you hear a solution. Thanks.

[Eric]

Well, here is some information for what it is worth. A user on M3F (from Ottawa) in the cold weather problem with starting car (http://mazda3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=13703)
thread says:

I\'ve had this happen to me twice in the past 3 weeks. Dealer said my main relay was actually freezing. If this happens again and you cant get it to start you\'ll have to take the main relay out, warm it up, and put it back in. The main relay is in the fusebox under the hood. It\'s not shown in the owners manual, but my dealer told me that it\'s the big one that\'s closest to the front of the car on the drivers side.

If this is really the problem, it is darned inconvenient. Surely there must be a fix for this! They cannot seriously be telling their customers that this is what you have to do to start the car in really cold weather!

Has anyone else heard this from their dealer?

[civiclad]

If this is indeed Mazda\'s solution to the problem, it is not acceptable. Can you imagine someone having to remove their \"main relay\" and warm it up? This is really funny.

For the individuals who still experience this problem, they should file a complaint with Transport Canada.


Originally posted by Eric


Well, here is some information for what it is worth. A user on M3F (from Ottawa) in the cold weather problem with starting car (http://mazda3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=13703)
thread says:

I\'ve had this happen to me twice in the past 3 weeks. Dealer said my main relay was actually freezing. If this happens again and you cant get it to start you\'ll have to take the main relay out, warm it up, and put it back in. The main relay is in the fusebox under the hood. It\'s not shown in the owners manual, but my dealer told me that it\'s the big one that\'s closest to the front of the car on the drivers side.

[FLIPDADY]

This problem is all news to me. I have yet to see a 3 come in for this related issue. So far I haven\'t seen any mention of this problem in Mazda\'s bulletins. I\'ll keep searching.

[Eric]

IT SEEMS TO BE TRUE

It happened to me again this morning. Only for a few minutes this time. I called Mazda Canada and talked with Julie. I told her what the problem was and what I had heard about warming up the main relay. She was understandably sceptical, but said she would check with the tech-help people. She called back in about 15 minutes and to my surprise confirmed the warming up the relay procedure as a likely work around. She said that Mazda is looking for a permanent solution and when they have one they will issue a Technical Service Bulletin. I asked her how long this might take, but of course she could provide no guidance. I called Westone Mazda and talked with Ramesh and Nikki and told them about my conversation with Mazda Canada. I encouraged Ramesh to call himself to get the proper procedure so that someone from Westowne could teach it to me. They want to scan the car for codes again (correctly so), and will teach me the relay warming up procedure. Nikki also offered to get me a new main relay. For those of you having this problem, It might be an idea to contact Mazda Canada just to let them know how many of us are having this problem. We do live in Canada after all and cold weather is part of our lives.

[FLIPDADY]

I found something relating to the immobilizer. It mentions a problem with the immobilizer system coil antenna. Apparently it can come out of position if some clips that mount the antenna pop out. The fix calls for the technician to check the problem on the computer. Then remove the upper steering column cover and locate the antenna coil. If it is loose or moves freely then re-install the the tabs so they lock in the proper position. After this procedure then the technician has to do another scan to see if it worked. Anyways tell Niki that this fix is in the \"Mazda Key\" he\'ll know what that means.

[murdock]

It hasn\'t happened to me again since that cold Saturday two weeks ago, but I am obviously worried it will leave me stranded at some point again.

I went to Avante Mazda and the service there told me that if nothing is wrong now then all my systems will check out fine so there is nothing they can do. He also said that it wasn\'t the immobilizer because the car didn\'t crank at all.

I\'ll be sure to give Mazda Canada a call to push to get a real solution if it is the main relay. Thanks.

[Eric]

I have just come from my dealership, where I was instructed in the relay warming procedure. They also replaced the main relay with a new one, but I was told that even though this new relay (TYCO brand) was better than the old one, it was not really good enough. Mazda is working on a permanent fix. He will let me know when they have one.

Sure hope it is soon.