Pit-Bull Attack

[car_demon]

In an adjacent department of which I work, has this beautiful 25yr old girl. Pretty and sexy looking, beautiful smile and mild shy personality. So of course when I haven\'t seen her in the past little while it was natural to inquire. I put down my pride and ask her friend of which I\'m not too fond of, to the whereabouts of her buddy.

To my horror; I hear she was a victim of a Pit Bull attack and has been off for the past 5 weeks recovering. She didn\'t go into the detail of the events leading up, but apparently she sustained injuries resulting from bites and some flesh/muscle torn from the back of her calf, thigh, buttock and shoulder blade. I immediately felt weak, sick, sad and angry. It has disturbed me a wee bit.

This happened up in Brampton and was not in the media with all the other attacks. I don\'t know what the solution is as I have been hearing the debate and issue of Banning Certain Breeds lately. As a Brotherman, I\'m not a fan of dogs, but I can just co-exist with some moderately trained breeds on a individual basis like Labs, Retrievers, some Poodles and Hounds. And that depends on the demeanor of the individual breed and dog in-general. I must admit that most Huskies, Dobermans, German Sheppards, Bulldogs(anyform) and some Terriers I approach with caution. It also depends if the owner has a strong sense of control and discipline towards the beast.

What are some views out there by dog lovers and owners?
Will the proposed legislation cure the problem?
I\'ve heard the saying..\"there is no such thing as a bad dogs, just irresponsible owners.\"
How true is that?
What are the stereotypes of PitBull owners?
Inform me as to what certain breeds are designed to do originally?
Have you seen the wrong breed of dog with certain family or owner situations?

[car_demon]

Poor thing is now afraid of anything that creeps I heard.:(

[TheProfessor]

Wow, that really sucks. Hope she\'s gonna be alright. I am a dog lover, and have owned two German Sheppards so far. Both dogs were perfectly calm and compliant, couldn\'t have been better for me.

Having gotten that out of the way, I think I am for the ban on Pit Bulls. They appear to be the most prone to going birzirk (sp) at a moments notice. Unfortunately this usually ends up with an unlucky individual such as the girl you mentioned getting hurt quite seriously. Personally I would\'ve liked to have seen more responsibility on the owners part before the ban was put in place, but it\'s too late now. If I had a dog and knew that if it attacked somebody I could face a serious fine or even jail time, you can be damn sure that dog is gonna be muzzled when it\'s out in public.

[car_demon]

I\'m gonna inquire the real extent of her injuries and to what the lead-up to the situation was.
When I heard of deep muscle and ligament damage I got a weak feeling in the knees and I felt so sad. She was quite sexy in the summer time with J-Lo-ish body her short-shorts and tanned legs. I was gonna invite her to DrkNights as my sidekick.

Now I think she has emotional damage on-top of the physical damage and scarring. I\'m wondering on her ability and mobility of the damaged limbs. I do believe owners and licensing should be scrutinized highly with fines and bans put in place. There are tonnes of responsible owners out there but I guess a few bad apples and incidences ruins it.

The stereotypes of PitBulls for me in the media and from da hood where for; Drug Peddlers companions, guardians for Illegal Chop Shops or Places of Business or cosmetic tough image of a Punk, Skinhead or Homie walking down the street. Yet many other breeds can muster up the initial fear image too, but the natural lbs/sqr inch of biting power in this breed is lethal, so it is like a deadly weapon in the wrong ownership.

[PlatMS6]

...reading that made me feel sick...

the dog should be killed that’s for sure, and owner if found to be irresponsible should get jail time for that...its really messed up

i don’t think i would ever get anything other than a lab or a german sheppard (as one of he bigger dogs), as both dogs are tame and friendly in a natural environment, and in general very intelligent, and even at that ..not every single one is the same, some are just stupid dangerous muts and some are \"safe\" as can be, so u have to look at it on a dog-dog basis. Also i would never have one if it was near children under the age of 10-12. i remember seeing a german sheppard get attacked by little kids, they were pulling on its ears, tail ...hitting him with tree branches etc., i still don’t know why, but it never even barked once ..it just whimpered and ran away...stupid kids, just imagine if it was the same with a pit-bull..it wouldn’t end with the same result. however when they are raised to be killers they can be one of the best, and im pretty sure that a sheppard with a wide enough collar could kill a pit bull with ease, however i would have peace of mind if i had to sleep in the same house with a german sheppard, than say a pit-bull, i just don’t understand why ppl have them in the first place.

sorry to hear what happened to your co-worker... you should probably go see her if u guys chilled (i lack a better word for it) together even if it was just at the workplace

[MajesticBlueNTO]

banning a breed of dog is akin to banning a race of humans.

let\'s put a human spin on this and ask yourself how you feel. for instance, one day the government decides to ban \"black\" people because they are more prone to violence - as shown in the nightly news and the weekly edition of COPS.

doesn\'t sound so good does it? are all \"black\" people bad because that\'s all you see in the media? would it captivate viewers if they showed the numerous amount successful african-americans and african-canadians who do not fit the \"COPS stereotype\"? No, because that doesn\'t \"sell\".

just as you don\'t hear about positive news in the media regarding certain areas of the GTA (Scarborough comes to mind, you only hear bad things out of Scarborough, never good), you\'ll never hear about the good pitbulls out there who far outnumber the attacks.

[kl7402001]

Banning the breed is stupid.

It is totally the irresponsible owner\'s fault. I have seen pitbulls learn to do many tricks, the dog is not dumb, just need some training.

They are animals.. TRAIN THEM!!! ... with an irresponsible owner anything with teeth could be dangerous...

Cars can run over ppl.... why don\'t we ban that? .. We ban bad drivers from driving not the cars.!!

[PlatMS6]

Originally posted by MajesticBlueN


banning a breed of dog is akin to banning a race of humans.

let\'s put a human spin on this and ask yourself how you feel. for instance, one day the government decides to ban \"black\" people because they are more prone to violence - as shown in the nightly news and the weekly edition of COPS.

doesn\'t sound so good does it? are all \"black\" people bad because that\'s all you see in the media? would it captivate viewers if they showed the numerous amount successful african-americans and african-canadians who do not fit the \"COPS stereotype\"? No, because that doesn\'t \"sell\".

just as you don\'t hear about positive news in the media regarding certain areas of the GTA (Scarborough comes to mind, you only hear bad things out of Scarborough, never good), you\'ll never hear about the good pitbulls out there who far outnumber the attacks.

lol that cannot be compared whatsoever...just curious, do u have a pitbull or a similar breed of dog?

u can just look at it this way, anything that can maul(sp?) or seriously injure a grown human being should be banned. a pit bull is 10x more dangerous if not more than say a lab, it is more powerful, better built (compact, muscular body), and its jaw is one of the strongest out of all teh breeds, ie. killing machine, once it grabs a hold of meat it will tear it appart with a powerfull grip and just strength provided from the body. now the lab on the other hand, i think the only way a lab could kill a human is if it grabbed them by the neck at sleep..and even then i dont think that you would get anything more than puncture wounds which could be lethal but when was the last time you heard (either hear-say or news) that a lab seriously injured a grown human being to near death, it just isnt in their natural behaviour to do so, sure one or two might bite in a while but it is an animal.

btw i dont have dogs and never have, just speaking on observations

[TheProfessor]

For those that feel banning the breed is stupid or akin to banning a race of humans, think of this:

Why are we not allowed to keep certain animals as pets? Say tigers for instance? Some I\'m sure are very docile, yet it is illegal. The idea of preventing people from owning dangerous animals is nothing new.

And to the person who said \"train them\".....what makes you think that we are able to control a dog when many people can\'t even control themselves? We have people in this city throwing their children off of bridges and setting themselves on fire. You think somebody like that gives a damn and is willing to train their dog?

As I stated in my earlier post, they should just clamp down seriously on the owners should something happen. No first time forgiveness or weak ass fines.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by 2004mz3



lol that cannot be compared whatsoever...just curious, do u have a pitbull or a similar breed of dog?

why can it not be compared? humans are just as dangerous as a dog.

and, no, i do not have a pitbull or a similar breed. why is it that EVERY animal organization, from vets to the humane society, were against the pitbull ban? because it does not make sense to ban the breed.


Originally posted by 2004mz3
u can just look at it this way, anything that can maul(sp?) or seriously injure a grown human being should be banned.

ok, let\'s ban cats as pets, since they can seriously scratch or bite you. while we\'re at it, lets ban parrots since they can kill too (their beaks can crush and cut a pop can in half).


Originally posted by 2004mz3
a pit bull is 10x more dangerous if not more than say a lab, it is more powerful, better built (compact, muscular body), and its jaw is one of the strongest out of all teh breeds, ie. killing machine, once it grabs a hold of meat it will tear it appart with a powerfull grip and just strength provided from the body. now the lab on the other hand, i think the only way a lab could kill a human is if it grabbed them by the neck at sleep..and even then i dont think that you would get anything more than puncture wounds which could be lethal but when was the last time you heard (either hear-say or news) that a lab seriously injured a grown human being to near death, it just isnt in their natural behaviour to do so, sure one or two might bite in a while but it is an animal.

btw i dont have dogs and never have, just speaking on observations

where are your \"observations\" from? you don\'t own a dog nor have you. your \"observations\" come from the media, which is really only where your generalizations come from.

a bichon-poodle mix has seizures and it\'s jaw clamps down when a seizure occurs. example, i\'m walking a bichon-poodle and a kid goes to pet it and it has a seizure. the kid so happens to have its hand close to the mouth and, because of the seizure, the dog clamps down on the hand. the kid isn\'t getting that hand back until the seizure is over. worst case, the kid\'s hand can\'t be used and is amputated. this type of \"attack\" starts occuring more...now, let\'s ban bichon-poodles (or any mutt where seizures are common) because the media has blown it out of proportion. fact of the matter is that a bichon-poodle is one of the smartest breed of dog and is pretty playful and docile but, now, to the media and the unknowing public who only like to be educated by what they see on TV or read in a newspaper, it is a \"crazy dog\" that must be banned. make sense at all? no.

dogs, at one point, were \"killing machines\". they had to hunt for their food, which, what do you know, involved biting the neck of the victim to severe the jugular vein and then tear the meat off. what changed? domestication...hundreds of years of dogs co-existing with humans; however, they still have that instinct to kill. it is surpressed from HUNDREDS of years of conditioning but ALL dogs have this instinct.

the reason why there are pitbull attacks is because of false \"observations\" such as yours. people think pitbulls are these killer dogs so they get them, because they\'re \"cool\" and then mistreat it and, in some cases, have it kill little animals. a dog brough up like that will be dangerous. you train a dog, ANY dog, to be a killer and it will do just that. you can train a Lab to be a killer or dangerous and it will kill. what does this boil down to? the owners.

just as with humans, is it nature or nurture? raise a child from infancy to be a trained killer and it will know nothing else but to kill or harm...it knows nothing else - which, in effect, is what people do to \"dangerous dogs\" - they train them from the time they are puppies to be \"dangerous\". raise a child from infancy to be loving and loyal and it will be just that - which is also why there are pitbulls that will never harm a child.

[ZOOM ON 3]

I don\'t think you should ban the breed...a close friend of mine had a 90lb pitbull and was such a big baby when it got to know you...at first the dog looked very intimidating but with time it will be just as playfull....
I have a dog and it\'s my responsiblity as an owner to make sure he is ok in public....

By the way..many people don\'t know that a German Sheppard is the third most dog that bites..it follows a Rottweiler at the top of the list and then pitbulls come second...

I know it\'s hard when someone that you know gets hurt by a dog...I believe truly that it\'s the owners responsiblity for that dog in public and on his/her property...I believe that a 100 lb person be walking a dog like a pitbull or rottweiler..they wouldn\'t be able to control it...

[midnightfxgt]

Just something to look at: http://www.deviantart.com/view/11454716/ .

I am 100% for the new penalties to owners, even the muzzle laws etc. But banning a breed is absurd. I do not own a pitbull nor have I wanted to (just not my type of dog). A dog is how you raise it, and I think Majestic hit the nail on the head.

The owner is who is responsible for the dog. And if the city wants to put a muzzle law in effect, I can agree with that, but telling someone they can not have the dog, because of its POTENTIAL is unfounded. The Ban is on their potential. I think Cockers and Labs have more bites than any other dogs. Mind you, a cocker spanial could take a chunk outta ya, I would not fear for my life. If a pitbull wanted, it could kill you.

What good are these dogs? Well, I wish right now I could find the site, but these dogs are used in many search and rescue missions (they were used more than any other dog in the on Sept 11). They are also used to visit terminally ill children, and as pets. How many other breeds do all this? Not many.

Essentially, there is a fear due to media publicity, and people screamed. Its just sad that this is something the gov\'t chose to listen to.

~JOHN

[midnightfxgt]

Lucky to have walked away: http://pitbulls.iwarp.com/photo.html

Demon, I think its very respectable of you to ask for opinions of others, and for facts before, jumping on a media bandwagon. :) Good on ya.

a good site to check out is www.badrap.org .

~JOHN

[car_demon]

I just got a Response from a TORONTO FORENSICS POLICE VET and a Dog Owner. Below is his copied and pasted response he sent to me in an Email.

Wow, lots of questions. I\'ll try, here goes:

> What are some views out there by dog lovers and owners?

\"I don\'t trust any dog that has been bread, throughout the years to fight.
Pit Bulls are called that because their ancestors were dogs that won pit
fights, where two dogs are put in a pit or a cage and fight to the death.
When you breed a strong male, and a strong female, you will get strong
off-spring, right? They were purpose bread for generations to fight, and
that type of instinct is hard to train out of an animal. It\'s instinct is
to fight, to bite and to kill, that is what it was bread for.\"

> I\'ve heard the saying..\"there is no such thing as a bad dogs, just
irresponsible owners.\" How true is that?

\"The dogs are only bad by our current standards. Back in the day, when dog
fighting was a sport, Pit Bulls were revered, because they were very good
fighters. This also made them very good guard dogs, and effective war dogs
too. But this is going way back in history. There are also dog-pull
competitions, like tractor pulls, but with dogs. Due to their strength, Pit
Bulls excell here as well. That being said, there are okay dogs with bad
owners. This is bad. There are good owners with bad dogs. This too is
bad. And there are bad owners with bad dogs. This is very bad. Any
combination other than good owner and and least okay dog is bad news.\"

> What are the stereotypes of PitBull owners?

\"Pit Bulls are owned by many different types of people, and I\'m not sure the
owners can be stereotyped. The ones the Police run into are bad people to
begin with, which lends itself to the dog not being well behaved either. I
know the dogs have been used in drug houses to keep the druggies in line, to
keep the place from being ripped off, and to attack and at least slow down
Police in the event of a raid. Police shoot several Pit Bulls each year
which does not make the news for whatever reason. I know that for several
years, gang members in LA were buying Pit Bulls and breeding them to use as
weapons against each other and against the Police, and that one of the
\"Professional Protestors\" in the GTA inquired from at least three breeders
about buying several to take to protests to try to get them to attack
Officers.\"

> Inform me as to what breeds are designed to do?

\"Pit Bulls were bread with creating the best type of fighting dog in mind.
Sheppards, of all types, were bread to herd sheep and cattle. Sheep dogs
were bread to look like sheep from a predator\'s point of view, so they could
hide amoungst the flock, guarding it, and attacking any threat that came too
close. Most dogs were bread either to help us guard against predators, or
to assist us while we hunt. The Rodesian Ridgeback was bread to help hunt
lions. A group of three or four would chase an isolated lion down, and tire
it out, so their handler could eventually catch up and kill it. It has a
ridge of fur that grows up it\'s spine towrds it\'s head, instead of down
towards its tail, hence the name. The Doberman Pinscer was started by a
German by cross breading Greyhounds with Rottwielers, and came up with a
very, very effective guard dog that was very fast and very powerful.
Rotties were originally bread for fighting too.\"

> Have you seen the wrong breed of dog with certain family or owner
> situations?

\"Most dogs which are not fighting dogs are okay, and can be taught to be
civil, by our standards. But if a dog is mistreated, or tormented, they can
be expected to either break (you will know a beaten dog when you see one,
thay are constantly afraid of everone) or rebel and snap at people it sees
as a threat.\"

> Will the proposed legislation cure the problem?
> Is there a problem?

\"Yes, there is a problem. I don\'t know if banning the breed will make it
better, but I don\'t think it will make it worse. Twenty years ago, before
Pit Bulls were so prevelant, did we have this problem? This is like gun
control, to some extent. The ideas is to take the weapon away, and then
that perticular weapon can\'t hurt anyone.\"

> What about the licensing situation? Can they discriminate as to what
> breed certain people can have?

\"I guess they are going to try. Until the issue is challenged in court, I
guess we won\'t know.\"

> Is this law weak like banning guns?

\"No. Guns are hard to ban because they are easy to hide from the people on
the street. It\'s hard to own a dog and have nobody know about it.\"

[car_demon]

I\'m still disturbed and debating the topic of Nature vs. NurtureI\'m getting different interpretations and opinions which is good.., I\'m feeling really sad for this young woman but still trying to listen fairly.

Makind can be a savage animal in itself, yet aren\'t we different in that we as humans are spiritual, exercise \'free-will\', have a conscience, make choices and can rationalize to some degree; differentiating us from the animal kingdom. The animal Kingdom with some relatively intelligent creatures are instinct based. It is on the later premise that I would like to find the History on Pit Bulls. The copper stated that they were a specific breed trained for vicous sport fighting and became highly regarded as the dominant breed to have. In all fairness, other breeds have been used for fighting but none as fierce and dominant as the Pitbull breed.

The offspring of tough male mating with tough female broughtout tough offsrping and that has been replicated for many decades down a particular lineage. Now if we take this specific creature with this \' PIT FIGHTING TRAIT\' and nuture the hell out of it, aren\'t we on a ticking time bomb to which kind of PitBull dog we would buy if we were to purchase one in theory?
How far can nuturing go in the animal Kingdom with regard to highly natural aggressive type animals like alligators, crocodiles, Lions, Tigers etc. Not all domesticated animals will turn, but is it
risky?

I\'ve been snapped at by a CockerSpan and a Husky delivering papers as a kid in-front of the owners who said that they didn\'t bite initially. I\'ve always feared dogs to this day for a 6\'2\" 240lb Blackguy but the breeds of Dobermans, German Sheps and Rottwielers scare the shit outta me. I\'ve learned to relax over the years and try to read the demeanor of the dog as they still smell the shit in my underwear and my fear.