M3F Strikes Again

[wtom]

WTF... nonsense!

http://creednet69.proboards31.com/index.cgi?board=offtopic&action=display&num=111456 9297



\"Dear fellow members,

Daniel (Mazda3Forums.com Administrator) has decided to ban me from Mazda3Forums.com because apparently I asked XenonExpert & Xtec too many questions regarding their HID kit and their intake. Questions that they couldn\'t answer nor did they even try to answer. Questions that were asked to help the public consumers and not for any self benefit. Questions that apparently XE/Xtec couldn\'t handle so they asked Daniel to \"take care\" of me on Mazda3Forums.com

I think this really shows the true colours of those that run Mazda3Forums.com and I really don\'t need comment on the quality of people any further.

This just goes to show how biased M3F is towards Umnitza and how it sides with XenonExpert/Xtec eventhough Umnitza is a sponsor also.

Honestly, I don\'t mind being banned since what\'s been happening on M3F is really disgusting especially with the moderators and Daniel standing up for XE/Xtec when they can\'t even provide proof for their discrediting claims against the competitor\'s product.

Let this be an example that asking public questions to the vendor of Xtec and XenonExpert will get you banned.

Please pass this message around to fellow Mazda3 forum members so that they know what happened.

Cheers,
Red.\"

[MAZDA3_MIKE]

:sarc

[S.F.W.]

Man that is such crap! The whole M3F situation is a massive conflict of interst. I think the moderator need to be completely objective. In this case, since he is selling product, he obviously is not.

[car_demon]

Hmmm! It\'s a touchy situation, but Q&A\'s are for the benefit of any online board. Certainly though, discretion must be used when PM-ing somebody constantly or trying to annoy and make people look embarrassed in Open Forum format.(some people are shit disturbers that way;..it\'s sort of like ringing on somebody\'s door or telemarketing surveys ringing your number constantly. There is more to this situation than it seems.

It is up to every online participant and individual to judge the characters and seek answers in the right place, with the right people at the right time. I, personally with my limited knowledge will answer any P.M. because I would like to be treated the same way on some info seeking trek or product I had no clue about. Before I ask the most basic questions I also try and surf the backlogged threads and then ask current info and updates as to not annoy the current members.

All in all, it\'s all about COMMUNITY and just because I\'m in Cyberspace hiding behind a cyber cool name, screen, keyboard and ISP I don\'t want to come off like I\'m 6\'2\" 240lbs with a huge d!#%. BTW all of that is true;) I just respond politely and with some knowledgeable responses when I can and offer opinions.

Somebody say \"AMEN BROTHAMAN\", if you feel my street preaching.:p

[S.F.W.]

AMEN BROTHAMAN - I hear ya!

[Whos ur dadd]

That\'s too bad. RR put in a good show with his posts in the XE thread. The mod/admin just wouldn\'t admit the truth.

[david3]

Xtec is skurrred.

[Devin98]

Well let me chime in a little, I have stayed so far away from this whole problem it is not even funny, I have stopped selling to Mazda3 owners because I did not want to get invloved, because all the BS is not good for business no ones! hurts every party invloved because people will just goto someone not invloved to get their product.

I don\'t agree with this public war at all, and I don\'t believe in the bias of \"another\" mazda 3 board.

With that said buy Prolumens :P

haha

-Devin

[holeydonut]

Howdy ya\'ll - it\'s Holeydonut from Mazda3forums.com

I was hoping that threads like this wouldn\'t pop up on the other Mazda3 sites, but it seems this one isn\'t going to go away or get locked. I know there\'s forum rivalry, but I\'m hoping that you guys will be empathetic about my desire to represent Mazda3forums. Since no one is going to send me a greeting card asking for my input, I\'ll just throw in a really long explanation from our point of view. Happy reading :)

-----

I know this issue is pretty heated, but I hope you get some idea from our point of view. Obviously, I\'m not 100% impartial in this matter, but the moderators tried pretty hard to keep in the middle of this whole mess.

Basically, the heart of RedRaptor\'s ban is due to his long history of being on the moderator watch list. Previously, he has taken a liking to trolling our moderator FrostyFire. RedRaptor is extremely vocal in posting stuff, which has often lead to some conflict. When dealing with FrostyFire, he often decided to tread the line between agressive inquiry and \"trolling.\" RedRaptor will probably gladly tell you that the reasons for him \"trolling\" FrostyFire were justified, but he was already on thin ice with us after this incident.

Now, the thing with Umnitza, Xtec, and Xenon Expert (Oliver) is just another pile of crap that is nearly impossible to sort out. However, the conflict between these firms had very little to do with why RedRaptor was banned. Yes, he was asking a lot of questions of Oliver and of Xtec; but it seems that it is only this most recent set of events that lead to the ban.

To know a bit about this situation, here\'s the background about Oliver and M3F:


1) Oliver was one of the initial members here. He was helping owners with problems and being a great member of M3F from the beginning. So much that he was a moderator here.

2) He started a company distributing aftermarket lighting

3) He became a sponsor

4) He asked if he should be de-modded due to a potential conflict of interest, but our site owner/operator Mz6ZoomZoom felt that the de-modding was not necessary. Oliver had more than shown that he was a great member, and Oliver was a moderator/sponsor for about 1 year without any problems.


Onto the recent problems;

Something happened a few months ago where Oliver was getting shit-canned by a whole bunch of members here. He suddenly failed to deliver on quite a few orders, his parts were bad, and things were just messy. During this \"downturn,\" Oliver had posted about how he was in positive dealings with Umnitza, and that it was Xtec who was being crappy on deliveries. But, something changed (I have no clue about the specifics). Oliver got some new information, and he he bypassed Umnitza to deal with Xtec directly. I don\'t know what \"information\" is true / lies / misunderstandings or whatever. Basically, Xtec and Umnitza don\'t get along anymore, and Umnitza seems to blame Oliver for much of this.

Oliver found it easier to deal with Xtec to get parts and the supply problems just seemed to vanish. At the same time, Umnitza had begun to successfully sell at the retail level (prior to this, he was just a distributor to other retailers), and was now marketing the exact same parts as Oliver. Eventually, Xtec decided that dealing with Umnitza was bad, and this created the \"split\" between Umnitza and Xtec/Oliver.


For about 3 weeks, it\'s been a huge bicker-fest between the two camps on M3F. Some people have had great transations with Umnitza during that period where Umnitza was selling both Xtec and ProLumen components. At this time, Oliver continued to have problems regaining his reputation since he hadn\'t been able to re-build some of the trust that he lost while he was buying Xtec products through Umnitza and having problems completing orders on time.

We finally got stuff under control with the vendors keeping their egos in check, but this hasn\'t stopped the M3F members from throwing their snide comments and aggressive posts in the \"rival\" firms\' threads. Of course, members are all reading these comments, and the posts seem perfectly justified. Unfortunately, there are some extremely heated and negative posts that have been removed since they do nothing but \"call out\" one of the companies. There\'s a big difference in trying to help gain understanding and hiding behind \"customer interests\" to bash a company.

RedRaptor has been advised to take his questions to private messaging or email since his posts spawn more unanswerable questions (at least, unanswerable to the extent that everyone is happy). Those interrogation sessions get too many people involved, and they don\'t provide a good environment to reach a resolution. The momemnt RedRaptor started asking for pictures, certified documents, etc. that Xtec could not deliver, rumors just popped up everywhere. Xtec did provide the forum with contact info to do their own due dilligence, but such suggestions were ignored. There became an allegation of bribery, false experiments, etc - and it\'s that specific type of attitude that we want to prevent. No allegations; people have to take some responsibility in cooperating to reach a resolution rather than just expecting someone to answer everything for them What seems like an innocuous question to some users is resulting in the vendors getting really pissed off. Was the experiment flawed? I don\'t know, but tossing around accusations is not the type of attitude we want towards anybody.

Then came the \"auto-exe knockoff short ram intake\" incident. This created more \"trolling\" regarding whether or not Oliver was entitled to sell the \"Umnitza Short Ram\" or \"a short ram that Umnitza helped to test.\" A moderator at M3F, Raitchison, helped do test fitting and offered feedback to AEM for their Cold Air Intake. Was it a \"Raitchison CAI?\" Not that I was aware of. Unfortunately, we got posts about how Oliver conspired to do some back-door dealings and whatever where he stole the Umnitza-intake technology for his own. The questions regarding Umnitza\'s involvement weren\'t what was trolling; it was the subsequent allegations of illegal or unethical trade practices.

Really, it\'s not the moderators\' place to tell a manufacturer who they decide to sell to. If Umnitza wanted exclusive rights to be first to market, he should have made a deal with the manufacturer. Since he didn\'t, anyone and their mom could decide to sell that short ram intake. If you\'re in the aftermarket business, and you secure a deal to sell cool aftermarket stuff legally, would you want people to troll your sponsor forum? RedRaptor may have a semantic issue regarding whether or not someone once sent an email to suggest a change to a prototype. He can post this concern, but not in Oliver\'s sponsor section. We\'ve warned countless people about keeping those type of \"issues\" out of the sponsor forums.

I know common perception is that RedRaptor was ultimately banned because he took his questioning and quest to get answers too far. And, part of this is true; his unrelenting line of questioning did contribute to the ban. But, there was one key incident that led to his ban.

RedRaptor was in a thread that originally talked about the positives of Prolumen (for those who don\'t know - Prolumen is a rival firm to xtec). In this thread, RedRaptor decided to cuss out another member who had shown an inclination to support Oliver. RedRaptor says that a single outburst shouldn\'t result in a ban - but Mz6ZoomZoom entered the thread and told him that he was out of line. I don\'t know his motives, but RedRaptor then insulted Dan. When considering this situation, you now must add the insult to the many previous incidents where he has been warned to monitor his behavior.

It was the trolling of another M3F member and insulting the administrator that directly caused RedRaptor\'s ban.

RadRaptor can try to console himself and feel better by thinking that it was just his interrogation session that led to the ban. However, I hope you see through all this that it is not a single incident that or unplanned abuse of power that led to his ban. If he wants to talk about how crappy M3F is on other boards; that\'s his right. But, don\'t take everything he says at face value. He\'s obviously pissed off, and he\'s obviously under the impression that we\'ve bent over backwards to bend to Oliver\'s will.

Anyway, I hope this clears up things. If something doesn\'t make sense (or you want more clarification), let me know. Much of this stuff was publically viewable if you followed the threads; I\'m just putting it together and offering you our point of view during the matter. There were some deleted threads, but they didn\'t offer much to the situation other than to make the sponsors feel like they were being trolled by their rival firms\' groupies. Please contact me with any questions, I\'m open to discuss this situation with someone who wishes to know more details.

Cliff\'s Notes: RedRaptor has had problems on M3F before. The probems with Umnitza, Oliver, and Xtec are messy. Having members contributing to a whole slew of allegations, trolling, and pissed off sponsors is not cool. RedRaptor was banned after cussing out another M3F member and then insulting the owner of the site. RedRaptor is pissed off, but we hope his anger isn\'t contagious.

- Holeydonut
- holeydonut@gmail.com

[S.F.W.]

Holeydonut, I am not taking any sides on this, but I want to compliment you on writing a thorough summary, that is written based on incidents and not emotion.

[holeydonut]

Originally posted by S.F.W.


Holeydonut, I am not taking any sides on this, but I want to compliment you on writing a thorough summary, that is written based on incidents and not emotion.



Ho SFW, thanks for reading :) I\'m not looking to sway people to any particular side; I just want people to get enough info to form an objective conclusion... or just forget about the whole incident since it\'s nothing but frustration :)

[RedRaptor]

HoneyDonut,

Great summary. I think in your novel-like post you did a very very good job at labelling me as the \"bad guy\" and as a \"troll\". Albeit your post is full of lies, lies that we both know are just rather ridiculous. But knowing where you come from and who you hang out with, I am not surprised that you\'ve come over to \"explain\" yourself and of course in the meantime make me look like I was at fault. The funny thing is, your accusations are almost as bad as Markham Mazda\'s way of doing business. lol.:D (Opps, you probably wouldn\'t get that one).

Here are are the key things I\'d like to highlight:

-Frosty & I have had a history. Everyone here knows about it, he\'s come on to this board to \"tr0ll\" as you call it, before and he was owned pretty badly in one thread. If you need to find this thread, majic will show you the SEARCH feature. Trust me, Frosty gets no love here on TM3 so trying to use that against me is just a waste of time.

-We\'ve exchanged PMs already regarding issue of XE/Xtec/Umnitza and in a personal message to me (which I can\'t access anymore since your nice admin has banned me), YOU admitted you are not 100% impartial to the whole fight. At the end of the email, you kindly asked me to ask Umnitza for a quicktime movie of their experiment to help \"take the heat\" off XE/Xtec because they weren\'t owning up to ANY of the questions I had asked. I first thought your request was a joke...but I was quickly disgusted when I realized that you weren\'t kidding. Why would I ask for a quicktime movie of Umnitza\'s certifications and experiments when they have provided the pictures and procedures to everything? Of course now it is very easy for you to claim I am lying since I\'m sure that PM is deleted or altered by now.

I am really really sick of the \"He Said-She Said\" bullshit. You say you are not here to \"sway anyone\'s decision, yet in your novel of a post, you\'ve gone through a 10 point inspection of why you think I am the bad guy and even go as far as calling me a \"tr0ll\". Did get some tips from our Prime Minister Paul Martin on \"Bullshit 101\"?

I admit that I was aggressively asking questions XE/Xtec questions, but why should 100% legit questions be asked in private via PM? Especially when a retailer is releasing a report/claim that is discrediting another competitor? To this day, XE/Xtec still has ZERO proof about their claims of why the Xtec is a better kit than the Prolumen. All Jim has provided is the name and number of some shady foreign Chinese company which he admits to paying off to do the experiment. Hmmmm...I wonder if I paid a company to run a comparison test, which product will come out on top? Mine or the competitor\'s? Oliver & Jim was merely mocking the intelligence of the Mazda3 community with their \"table of results\". I don\'t know about the school system in the US, but in Canada, we started doing labs in Grade school and EVERYONE knows that a table of data means nothing. Also, I really like how \"mature\" XE/Xtec are by starting a user named Tr0ll to hit up Mazda3.ca forums and try to cause trouble there. I wouldn\'t expect anything less from them.

I do give you props for coming here but please don\'t try to insult the TM3 members here by making up the bullshit that you are not here to sway anyone\'s decision. This is obviously a lie when all you\'ve done in your above post is to try and discredit me by posting my past experiences which aren\'t even relevant at all regarding the XE/Xtec issue. Hmmmm....where have we\'ve seen this strategy before...? **cough XE/Xtec cough**

EDIT: In the end its all about sponsorship (the Liberal party would understand this...haha) and of course that means it comes down to one word, MONEY. I suppose my legit questions to XE/Xtec were distrupting how Mazda3Forums.com was doing business with its sponsors. I mean why would a sponsor pay M3F some good coin if they couldn\'t protect them from people like me who maybe asked one too many questions publicly? I understand the finanicial implications of what M3F was facing with me questioning their sponsors and putting them on the hot seat. I mean XE/Xtec don\'t pay M3F for nothing, do they? It was probably in M3F best interest to ban me because I would cause them to lose money should one of the sponsors not renew their contract next year. BUT please...don\'t try to sugar coat this fact by saying I got banned because I picked on Frosty in the past and some totally irrevelant stuff.

Point is, Mazda3Forums.com has become a business. I understand that and, since you know me so well (sarcastic), you think I am angry. Well I might have been angry when I first got banned but after I realized that M3F is about the money and sponsorship, I am not angry anymore because I totally understand. I would be pissed off too if I was a sponsor selling my somewhat shady products and some guy on the forums was asking me questions I can\'t answer. I would immediately ask the admin and moderators for help. I guess in this case, M3F did what it had to do to protect its investments which would be its sponsors.

Red.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Originally posted by RedRaptor

-We\'ve exchanged PMs already regarding issue of XE/Xtec/Umnitza and in a personal message to me (which I can\'t access anymore since your nice admin has banned me), YOU admitted you are not 100% impartial to the whole fight. At the end of the email, you kindly asked me to ask Umnitza for a quicktime movie of their experiment to help \"take the heat\" off XE/Xtec because they weren\'t owning up to ANY of the questions I had asked. I first thought your request was a joke...but I was quickly disgusted when I realized that you weren\'t kidding. Why would I ask for a quicktime movie of Umnitza\'s certifications and experiments when they have provided the pictures and procedures to everything? Of course now it is very easy for you to claim I am lying since I\'m sure that PM is deleted or altered by now.



I think you mean this:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/337000-337999/337094_109_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/337000-337999/337094_110_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/337000-337999/337094_111_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/337000-337999/337094_112_full.jpg

Text copied and pasted:


----------------------------I WROTE---------------------------

Hi,

Just curious. Are you and the rest of the M3F mods and admins paid off
to defend XenonExpert? I don\'t mean to offend you or the rest of the
M3F crew, but I am really getting a sense of a bias that there is
preference for XE over Umnitza eventho they are both sponsors of M3F.
I am sure I am not the only one who feels this way.

XE and Xtec have come up with literally nothing in terms of providing
proof of their so called lab, while Umnitza has procedures and
pictures out. Why would I ask them for a quicktime movie if they have
made every effort to be upfront with their customers.

Like I said, I have no Umnitza products installed. I am not their
fanboy but some of the stuff that Xtec and XE are pulling off by
discrediting other products with NO proof is disgusting. With my
engineering background, it was an insult to me that they would post
some rubbish of an lab to discredit their competitor. Apparently I am
not the only one that feels this way.

Xtec and XE need to stop insulting their competitors and focus on
selling their products. I still don\'t know why XE decided to go under
the radar with the intake? Its very shady.

my 2 cents.
Red.
----------------------------I WROTE---------------------------

----------------------------HE WROTE---------------------------
Heh, you\'ll be glad to know that I get paid absolutely nothing for
helping out on M3F. I haven\'t even received a free sticker to put on
my car

Anyways, I know we tend to defend Xenon Expert more, but he\'s been
around since the beginning of the site... so there\'s some bias built
into things inherently. It\'d be foolish for me to just say that I\'m
100% impartial all the time.

However, if you ask Oliver, he\'s probably claim that us moderators
have turned our backs on him. Really, he\'s definitely not viewing
things as if we were his pawns and he\'s getting the upper hand.

The reason that we tend to hop on board with Oliver in recent thread
is because there have been too many posts made in the XenonExpert
thread that are trolling him. Not your posts regarding his
\"experiment,\" but ones made soon leading to that incident where things
just blew up and we had a huge problem figuring out what was going on
between Umnitza, Xtec, and Oliver.

Anyway, Umnitza has one problem that we\'re having a hard time
overlooking; and that is a stable stream of satisfied customers. While
you\'re looking for the empirical truths, we\'re seeing too many posts
where people seemed to be getting burned by umnitza in transactions.
So far, there have been a few dings on Xenon Expert, but he\'s resolved
those issues very quickly.

Oliver has quite a few emails that he hasn\'t aired publically
regarding some transactions that are pretty questionable when he was
dealing with Umnitza... I\'d rather not elaborate on what happened
there. Umnitza has also fallen on some strange things in the Dodge
Neon forum and some BMW forums. I\'m really not sure what\'s going on
there (I didn\'t follow up), but things just look weird.

I know there are quite a few members here that like umnitza, and he\'s
done a great job offering the evidence that you guys are looking for.
Unfortuantely, it seems like most of the members who are out to go on
the offensive seem to be targeting Oliver and Xtec, so it\'s easy to
see how we (the mods) are on Oliver\'s side since we\'re having to step
in and stop that stuff. There are lots of things that Oliver can do to
reciprocate this, but he\'s held steadfast. I know you don\'t think he\'s
kept his cool, but he could be doing a lot worse.

Anyway, I don\'t know why xtec can\'t get photos from that dude in
Taiwan, but we definitely don\'t want any speculation being tossed
around because of this... if Umnitza calls that dude and finds some
stuff out, that\'d be fine - but hearing about some alleged bribing and
all sorts of other things is just unecessary. Same goes with the
argument over who owns the rights to that new short ram intake.

If I\'m Oliver, I need to get in on selling this thing to customers
because I make my living selling aftermarket stuff. Umnitza makes his
living selling aftermarket stuff too. Whether or not someone is
stealing blueprints needs to stay off the board unless there\'s some
evidence. Hearing that Umnitza offered some feedback in design may
indicate some involvement in the originaly prototyping, but I don\'t
see the connection to saying that Oliver violated some pre-existing
trade agreements to steal technology.

In any event, it\'s obvious that there are two sides here. All I want
is for the childish finger pointing, allegations, and those damn to
go away unless there is some actual need for them. I\'m tempted to call
that testing guy in Taiwan myself except I have no clue about lighting
----------------------------HE WROTE---------------------------

[TheProfessor]

Wow, this is a lot more complex than I had originally thought:(

[midnightfxgt]

Like all issues on M3F it allll started with Frosty (The useless admin from hell):D JK This issue isnt his fault.

-John

[wtom]

This is the last time I\'m gonna be a messenger between M3F and TM3 cuz it never turns out good. :p

[holeydonut]

Yep, that\'s the private message I sent. I even prefaced my post here by saying I\'m not 100% impartial. It\'s foolish to assume that someone who was with a forum since the beginning gets to respect from the site operators. It would also be silly for anyone to think that RedRaptor has ever done anything to put him in good graces with the moderators for us to give any care for what he says.

I\'m also going to avoid getting into some circular argument with RedRaptor. Read that PM that I sent him and draw your own conclusions. His straw-man argument is that he\'s asked too many questions shouldn\'t distract from the main issue. He\'s also done a very nice job pointing out that sponsors pay money.

My argument is that he\'s had a history of going to M3F and posting like an idiot. I\'m not sure how you justify attacking another individual, but RedRaptor and FrostyFire seem to think there is some just cause. I\'m sure FrostyFire isn\'t welcome on this board or mazda3.ca - and RedRaptor is not welcome on M3F.

In any event, we still have a valued member in Badger Biker on M3F to pose questions to Oliver; he\'s just more selective and smart about how he goes about it.

No sponsor or member should feel antagonized on M3F; in this case, it means banning an individual who feels it necessary to conduct himself poorly by calling a member a \"****ing shit distributors,\" and then mocking the admin.

And about the QuickTime movie - there was a big fat :p and a \"just kidding\" written when I originally contacted you. I contacted you to ask for some patience in dealing with the lighting issue and you\'ve felt it necessary to be selective in what you interprited from the message.

[RedRaptor]

Weak.

But I do agree with you that I through arguing with you regarding this issue. It is clear that you are trying to lead everyone away from the issue at hand which is the shadyness of XE/Xtec. Yes I\'ve had a history with Pancake which everyone knows about. But let\'s face it, it takes two to tango and Frosty was just as much as a PITA as I was. Since he\'s a moderator on M3F, I am not surprised that you are siding with him, but thats over and done with and who really gives a crap at this point. Again, your strategy of bringing up old news to bring members away from the issue at hand. I noticed you didn\'t even address half the issues I brought up in my post about the maturity and shadyness of XE/Xtec.

Call the quicktime movie what you want. I had an idea that you would bail out on your own words and say it was a big fat joke, but out of all the people from M3F, I expected more from you because I thought you were a reasonable and fair moderator, I guess I was wrong.

Here is my proposal. This is going to my last post on this topic. TM3 members and anyone reading this thread can draw their own conclusions. I don\'t try to insult anyone here by lying to them about my past with Frosty, all I ask is you do the same and don\'t try to insult everyone here by creating an arguement that strays away from the issue at hand.

I\'ll give you the \"last word\" in this thread if you like. I know that will make you happy.:sarc

Cheers,
Red.

[Ex-Rolla]

RR - classy guy for keeping your cool here.... *love the Liberal jokes too*

Ex

[midnightfxgt]

pfttt, Sorry to hear about the ban Red, but seriously, your not missing much. Frosty is an admin, many people dislike him, but no one cares. he has posted MANY questionable posts. Yet you did it and got banned.:sarc

Go figure.

-John

[holeydonut]

Whoohoo, I get the last word... this is nice.

Anyways, I figure there\'s no point in arguing the reasons for the ban since you keep on switching to a \"let me expose Xtec because I am an investigative reporter\" argument.

Plain and simple, RedRaptor insulted a member not named FrostyFire; then he decided in his wisdom to insult the admin of the site. Now he\'s banned, but he\'s grasping at straws by complaining about someone jokingly asking him to fetch a quicktime movie.

I haven\'t posted anything bullshit anywhere in this thread; even though RedRaptor seems to think that I have.

I haven\'t lied about the posts between RedRaptor and FrostyFire.

I haven\'t tried to \"sway\" decision; rather, I intend to offer people information to properly make a decision. I\'m telling anyone to believe me completely; I\'m just telling people not to believe everything RedRaptor says in the matter.

I\'m not asking anyone to believe Taiwanese experiments with complete trust. But, I am asking people on M3F to avoid creating allegations because they don\'t trust people who speak Mandarin.

I think RedRaptor has done a great job of his own discrediting himself. He deserved what was just a temporary ban for insulting another user and Mz6ZoomZoom; but that ban now permanent given the level of spammage that he brought back on M3F (with a new username), and percipitating this type of flame war on other forums.

In closing, If you don\'t trust Xtec, Oliver, or myself; do so based on your own interpretations of the situation after learning what has happened. Please don\'t base your assumptions on anyone\'s credibility based soley on what RedRaptor says. If you want to keep on hating Xtec, Oliver, or myself; that\'s cool. Just make sure your hatred isn\'t because RedRaptor says so.

[iconicrocket]

Whoa,

This is interesting, :D We got drama, slander, accusations. Damn... I smell lawsuit! Where\'s Judge Judy :D She\'ll straighten this all out.

Makes coming here and reading about all this that much more fun!

famous words to live by: DON\'T GET ME INVOLVE!

my. $0.02

[holeydonut]

I received a message to inform me of an error in one of my posts. MajesticBlueN posted the PM that I sent to RedRaptor. In that PM, I cited that Umnitza had some issues in a Dodge Neon forum:


Umnitza has also fallen on some strange things in the Dodge
Neon forum and some BMW forums.

I wish to state that I was mistaken by telling RedRaptor about perceived problems with Umnitza and any Dodge Neon forum. I am not aware of any issues with Umnitza and problems with the Dodge Neon. I had a serious brain fart or maybe my beer-buzz was wearing off (This is sarcasm. Really. I don\'t send PMs when I\'m drunk.). I apologize for any problems that this may have caused. I take full responsibility for mis-informing RedRaptor in that private message regarding perceived activity involving Umnitza on a Dodge Neon forum. Umnitza does not even offer any specific parts for Dodge Neons.

Obviously, I had not intended that private message to appear here. Since the message was posted here, I wish to take responsibility to inform the readers here that I made a mistake.

[MAZDA Kitten]

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/traurig/sad-smiley-028.gif

I by passed all those posts; IMO people shouldnt air their dirty laundry on a public message boards. Especially screen printing personal emails

** DISCLAIMER: THIS IS JUST MY OPINION ONLY **

[BETRTHNU]

I think RR as well as anyone on a PUBLIC board has the right to ask anything of the people who run the board, as well as how the sponsors opperate. Especially if the the sponsor has a habit of going back on their word/not shipping orders and offering a bunk product. Banning RR was stupid IMO because it made the mods/admis seem like dorks because they were obviously bias from the beginning, and could have easily locked any threads that got out of control, and could have told RR via PM that any more attempts to antagonize the sponsor would result in a ban. It seemed like they didn\'t like the situation and to protect their longtime sponsor from legitamite questioning by RR they banned him. Him going at it with the Admin of the site wasn\'t the smartest move, but maybe they Admin should have a thicker skin, and show more maturity than abusing his power and banning a user that has done nothing but question the integrity, product knowledge, and validity of the statements made by Mods/Admins and Sponsors.

\"One man\'s terrorist is another man\'s freedom fighter.\"

[car_demon]

Damn, this is better than WaterGate, WhiteWater, Dubin Inquirey, The Sponsorship Scandal. Tomorrow morning after my shift, I\'m gonna pull up my bean bag chair, hot chocolate and cinnamon toast with the crust trimmed off and read this in-full.

I have been a long time advocate of Battle Royals @ PicNics were on-line beef can be settled once and for all. Dammit.., growing up in the 80\'s/90\'s with WWF/WCW wrastlin\' has made me sorta a crazed about how things should be settled.


<Mike throws down his keyboard..., does the cool man shuffle and yells out a \"Whoooooooo!\" like Ric Flair>

[FrostyFire]

The search feature must be disabled for RR because he thinks I joined this forum to troll. :sarc


It\'s all good, \"I got owned\".

Where\'s your backup, diox and untouchable? Shouldn\'t they also be around telling me that I\'m owned?

[midnightfxgt]

Frosty - If you have nothing of use to say in this forum why not leave? I know I can safely say most people here find you useless as a mod.:sarc

If you have nothing constructive, just leave. I have yet to see you help in this forum at all.

-John

[midnightfxgt]

Where\'s your backup, diox and untouchable? Shouldn\'t they also be around telling me that I\'m owned?

Backup? Get a life outside of Message Boards dude. Its kinda sad you are asking someone to post \"Backup\" for themselves in the form of other users, from a different message board.

-John

*Whoops, sent that as a PM... ment to post it here. LOL.*

[torpedo20]

Hmm, interesting thread...
Once I found that m3club exists in TO (strangely enough thru mazda3 forums LOL) I never looked back :)

Banning people for no real reason? That ain\'t cool.

[FrostyFire]

Originally posted by midnightfxgt


Frosty - If you have nothing of use to say in this forum why not leave? I know I can safely say most people here find you useless as a mod.:sarc

If you have nothing constructive, just leave. I have yet to see you help in this forum at all.

-John

Sorry I didn\'t come here to troll...I thought RR and I had a \"history\".

[Xenon]

I hope this isn\'t going to get ugly....

We all know what happens when a topic like this comes up...

Just to be safe, This thread will be locked. As long as I\'m a moderator on this forum, I will not have immature arguements spawn on it.