turbo or LASIK?

[majic]

turbo will cost much more in the long run so LASIK it is :D

so i\'m looking into LASIK.. contacts start to piss me off and i like my oakleys and the freedom of glasses..

narrowed it down to:
Bochner (http://www.bochner.com/)
TLC (http://www.tlcvision.com/)
Herzig (http://www.herzig-eye.com/)

do you guys/gals have ANY experience (bad or good) with any of the above top key Canadian players? Prices are roughly the same at all locations. I just got back from Bochner and omg the old Dr. Stein was a an arrogant jackass as if he was god\'s gift to me for doing this surgery.. :sarc plus their staff wasn\'t the frendliest of all. i\'m scheduled for the onter lasik centres for consultations. just wanted to hear what you have to say. thanks.. any and all input appreciated

--majic

[Pimpin_29y]

Dunno much about lasik but I saw a Herzig commercial on TV...that could be a good thing if they can afford advertising...:D

[Optimzer]

my g/f\'s grandma went to TLC and it was all good. mind you, she is pretty old and had other vision problems, but she can now recognize me when she sees me! lol

she has also just started using a computer and emailing me..

[iconicrocket]

I\'m thinking about doing it myself. Tell us how it goes.

Definitely you need to get the wave-form LASIK since it much smoother and much finer than the other procedures. I think Herzig calls it HiDef Vision in their commercial.

How much is this going to set you back? I\'m thinking $1K per eye.

[Whos ur dadd]

i\'d be in for one eye.

you should post this in the group buy section...

[Whos ur dadd]

In all seriousness, only people WITH EXPERIENCE should vote. It\'s just silly to add your 2 cents based on a commercial you see.

[majic]

Originally posted by iconicrocket


I\'m thinking about doing it myself. Tell us how it goes.

Definitely you need to get the wave-form LASIK since it much smoother and much finer than the other procedures. I think Herzig calls it HiDef Vision in their commercial.

How much is this going to set you back? I\'m thinking $1K per eye.



i think what you are referring to is called \'custom\' LASIK.. from what i know/understand

LASIK = 1 size fits all procedure
custom LASIK = customized (duh) where they take a \'topographical\' scan of the cornea as well as the refractive characteristics throughout to make a very detailed map of the eye and get your vision to the best 20/20 level.

and sorry but it\'s $2500/eye to $3700/eye (depending WHERE you go and if you qualify for a basic custom procedure) - that\'s why i said i\'m sacrificing a turbo :p

i see these ads in the \"metro\" for $490/eye but i think that\'s the regular LASIK done from the back off the truck and i\'m skeptical - i do have only one set of eyes.. *sigh*

[Junior]

Originally posted by iconicrocket


I\'m thinking about doing it myself.



i don\'t think this is an operation you want to do on your own, please go see a professional :hoho

[firstmazda]

Originally posted by Junior



Originally posted by iconicrocket


I\'m thinking about doing it myself.



i don\'t think this is an operation you want to do on your own, please go see a professional :hoho

LOL it\'s like that commercial on TV where the doctor\'s on the phone telling the
guy how to cut his stomach open and operate on himself.

[TheProfessor]

My mother in law had it done five years ago at Bochner and had nothing but good things to say about them. The whole thing went smoothly and her eyesight was much improved. I have heard from a number of people though that your night vision will actually get worse, but hey, you can\'t have your cake and eat it too. BTW, screw the turbo, what good is going fast if you can\'t see;)

[bubba1983]

stick with TLC....their leading edge, and known for what they do!

[Optimzer]

Originally posted by firstmazda



Originally posted by Junior



Originally posted by iconicrocket


I\'m thinking about doing it myself.



i don\'t think this is an operation you want to do on your own, please go see a professional :hoho

LOL it\'s like that commercial on TV where the doctor\'s on the phone telling the
guy how to cut his stomach open and operate on himself.

hahahaha - that would be funny

doc: \"OK, now use your left eye to look into your right eye and take a laser and peel off the clear part of your eye\"
majic: \"ummmm....\"
doc: \"then when you\'re done that, use your right eye to look into your left eye. Things might be a little blurry by then but don\'t worry, it\'s a piece of cake\"

:p

[Whos ur dadd]

Originally posted by Whos ur dadd


i\'d be in for one eye.

you should post this in the group buy section...

majic:

I was only half joking. I think my wife may be interested. I\'ll call you tonight.

nathan

[Fuman]

lol, wtf...
I thought this was about cars... lol since u said Turbo and I had no clue what LASIK is.

if LASIK is laser surgery for eyes, what is turbo?

[majic]

Originally posted by Whos ur dadd



Originally posted by Whos ur dadd


i\'d be in for one eye.

you should post this in the group buy section...

majic:

I was only half joking. I think my wife may be interested. I\'ll call you tonight.

nathan

i\'ll post my experiences for those who are interested...

[Optimzer]

Originally posted by majic



Originally posted by Whos ur dadd



Originally posted by Whos ur dadd


i\'d be in for one eye.

you should post this in the group buy section...

majic:

I was only half joking. I think my wife may be interested. I\'ll call you tonight.

nathan

i\'ll post my experiences for those who are interested...

keep us updated - I think I will eventually consider LASIK seriously as well. I know for my g/f\'s grandma things went pretty smoothly

[majic]

Originally posted by Fuman


lol, wtf...
I thought this was about cars... lol since u said Turbo and I had no clue what LASIK is.

if LASIK is laser surgery for eyes, what is turbo?

ahahahahahha OMG ROFL.. LMAO!!

well since a turbo costs about the same as LASIK i figured it\'s a good comparison :p I guess i shouldn\'t have made that comparison to keep this a serious topic..

but anyway.. all joking aside, please provide input on the surgery aspect (pre/post op) if YOU or your relative/friend has gone through this - i\'ve seen commercials and ads and well it\'s all marketing, i can come up with that stuff.. but experience is what i\'m looking for.. thaks for the input..

[iconicrocket]

Originally posted by Junior



Originally posted by iconicrocket


I\'m thinking about doing it myself.



i don\'t think this is an operation you want to do on your own, please go see a professional :hoho

LOL, maybe they should make a DIY kit. Hahahaha.

[iconicrocket]

I got this off googles.

http://surgicaleyes.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x/a/frm/f/6541031211

[majic]

thanks for the link..

i just started reading it, but it seems like people who had problems are the ones that are MORE likely to post their experiences versus those who have had a great experience..

i think it\'s mainly to warn others of the risks (which i know are inherent with a procedure such as this)

having been to one of the 3 big shots, i\'ve been deemed a good candidate (thick enough cornea, normal size pupils, whatever else the tests showed - umm makes me think i need to investigate what makes one a good candidate) seems like ppl who have problems are the ones who had the alternative surgery (PRK) or ones with severe myopia/hyperopia and astigmatism.. i am nearsighted (myopia) with -3.0 in each eye so i should be ok..

when i went to bochner, the surgeon had a cookie crumb on his lip, i know it\'s a little thing but him being old, what else could he forget DURING THE PROCEDURE?? then again he\'s supposedly experienced.. anwyay.. the research continues..

EDIT: reading more

it seems that it\'s the females that post their \"bad\" experiences, are men too ashamed of them? does LASIK affect more women than men in a negative way?

also, some people have done stupid things, like had surgery after a sinus infection, allergies or dry eyes - is it their fault or is it the doctor/surgeon\'s? it looks like those who have complained, PROBABLY went to a no name place? just a guess b/c NOBODY (very few) state WHERE they had the procedure done and for how much. also, a LOT of the testimonials seem to come from USA and Canada is a pioneer in refractive laser eye correction

EDIT again:

\"But how do they know how much of my cornea to burn off? Is that what those scans were for? (Updated jan 2005)

Not unless you had wavefront-guided surgery. Conventional laser eye surgery is kind of a one-size-fits-all thing. They plug in your prescription (remember the three numbers, back in Eye Anatomy, Vision and Glasses for Dummies?) and the computer spits out an algorithm of some sort that is supposed to work for everybody with your prescription. If you had wavefront surgery, yes, they used the data from some wavefront aberrometry scans to programme the laser. \"

my hypothesis was right, so now did all those who are complaing use regular LASIK or the custom wavefront method?

http://www.lasermyeye.org/patients/learning/lvc4dummies.html

[fu00fu]

TURBO TURBO...


ppppppppsssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh...................... ...................

[Whos ur dadd]

majic:

A colleague of mine went to TLC and swears by them. She did TONS of research (as is her nature) and is very risk adverse. The fact that she chose TLC over the others speaks volumes to me.

Lemme know if you\'re interested and I\'ll e-mail you the contact info. Wifey and I are going in at the end of the month for our initial consultation (not sure we can afford 4 eyeballs at the same time, but we\'ll see...).

[majic]

actually, i just had my consultation with TLC on Monday.. they worked on Michael Peca and Tiger Woods to name a few ;) and i\'d be asking for the same surgeon (40K+ surgeries)

i felt as comfortable as i did at Herzig if not more. On top of that my optometrist is affiliated with them so i can go to her for my checkups. in addition, the staff was very friendly and knowledgeable (very fast with e-mail resonses to my questions) and as a bonus they were cheaper than Herzig while offering the same (latest) technology: custom/wavefront LASIK and femtosecond laser instead of a keratome to make the flap (much more precise)

yesterday i spoke with two people who went to lasikmd.ca - the guys who advertise in the metro for $490/eye and they had it done there (but the custom LASIK so it cost them about $4K) and they\'ve been pretty satisfied with the outcome - no post op problems. the only thing that concerns me about them at the moment (before visiting them) is that they seem to be like an assembly line - nex next next and get as many through in a day (thereby being able to decrease prices)

i\'ll do a full summary/review once i make up my mind and go to all places so i can compare. right now herzig and TLC are leading with TLC having an edge on the $$$ side

[Optimzer]

one of the most important correlations with outcome quality in healthcare is the volume that is performed.

so a healthcare professional or facility that sees more volume will have high levels of positive outcomes.

ever hear of Shouldice Hospital? It is a Harvard Business case for a focused healthcare model. Yes, it is an assembly line and yes, they are able to do it cheaply, but in return, patient outcomes are far better than provincial/national averages. Don\'t let the fact that it looks like an assembly line turn you off - it is optimized to do a single procedure with very high quality. Same thing is done in the manufacturing industry.

:D

[majic]

lol.. optimizer

sorry.. i failed to mention that they *MIGHT* use older technology and for exaple 1yr old tech in the eye surgery industry is the equivalent of 10years in automobile industry.. BUT this is hear-say and i haven\'t done THOROUGH research on lasikmd yet.. but i agree, the whole point is to get a surgeon who\'s done 10s of thusands surgeries.. but also one who\'s on the leading edge of the technology available in hopes of improving the procedure/outcome

also, TLC seems to be by far the largest center in the world with locations scattered through NA

and finally volume of crap will mean they can make crap properly ;) i\'m NOT saying that\'s the case but garbage in garbage out so if you keep on perfecting garbage well maybe you should work on reducing ontario\'s landfills :D

i\'ll keep you posted if you want :)

[Optimzer]

Originally posted by majic

and finally volume of crap will mean they can make crap properly ;) i\'m NOT saying that\'s the case but garbage in garbage out so if you keep on perfecting garbage well maybe you should work on reducing ontario\'s landfills :D

i\'ll keep you posted if you want :)

the first part went over my head :D I don\'t get it...

anyway, yeah keep me posted b/c I\'d like to do the same sometime :)

[majic]

***DISCLAIMER*** this experience is based on my own unscientific, yet rigorous research as of July-September of 2005. Some facts are as close to the truth as possible and they have usually been verified by a few sources (online or otherwise) - google was a huge help :p By reading this, you hold me in NO WAY accountable or responsible for what happens to you if you choose to undergo LASIK. You need to be aware of the risks involved but I won’t be outlining them here. I don’t want you to end up like Brent Hanson (www.brenthanson.com) so do your own research and meanwhile read about my experience …

So as you may or may not know, with the high gas prices, turbo became not so feasible and I decided to get LASIK done :D To get some background info on lasik check out All about vision (www.allaboutvision.com) I chose the “custom/wavefront/high definition� (everyone calls it something else) method using the IntraLase (www.intralase.com)

I’ll just describe my experience with Herzig Eye institute as that was my number 1 choice. To reiterate, I went to the top 3 places in Canada (among the top ones in the world) TLC, Bochner, and Herzig and I chose Herzig because I felt most comfortable there: the staff, the facility, the equipment, the technology. In the end it was down to TLC and Herzig and if I could only dig up an email, I came up with 13 reasons why I would pick Herzig over TLC.

Anyway, first thing as described earlier was the consultation (non binding and free) – I went to all three places to pretty much learn more about the procedure and to ensure I am a suitable candidate (thick enough cornea, moderate myopia, not too large diameter pupils [when dilated].. etc) I also emailed 2 or 3 other clinics to get some info on the technologies they used.

After over a solid month of research (online, word of mouth, clinic visits, and multitude of questions to staff) I decided on Herzig. I asked when I could have my ‘tretment’ done (that’s what they call it.. not even surgery or operation.. just a routine treatment.. lol) and I was told 2 weeks – WOW, I thought I’d have to wait 1-2 months like at the other place I inquired (for the top doctor there).

I called to schedule and appointment and within 15 minutes I had an email in my mailbox outlining the date of the appointment and the type of treatment (cool). The only thing I was asked was not to wear contacts for about a week prior to the treatment; they deform the shape of your cornea and could give false mappings for the surgery. I took it a step further and I stopped the use of contacts 2.5 weeks before the surgery – it was a bitch to play hockey with my glasses on but hey, it’s the price you pay) Surprisingly ‘other’ places advised to abstain from contact use for 72hrs prior to the treatment so either Herzig is giving an extra padding or the other places are taking chances, you figure it out for yourself. Oh and another thing was they asked me not to wear makeup or mascara on the day of the surgery .. *sigh* I had to comply :p

Last Thursday, I was scheduled for the treatment at 4PM and was asked to come in a little earlier (3:15PM) for the measurements. I got there on time, signed my life away ;) paid (ouch – turbo fund: $0) and waited. The optometrist/technician took a few more measurements (same as before) to ensure accuracy. I helped myself to some coffee and cookies (very good ones I might add) and waited for my turn. I was asked if I would like some valium – who could say no??? :D I popped back one pill and then I was asked if I wanted a massage (I swear it was NOT the valium talking). I just couldn’t say no, so I got a back, neck and hand relaxing massage.

Last set of measurements before the treatment was the ‘cornea fingerprint’. I was looking at this object and it was blurring and focusing, I was supposed to relax and look past it and NOT focus on it but I couldn’t do it. The technician was supposed to take 3 measurements (per eye) and she ended up having to take 5 sets of those, just to fail each time! She asked me to sit outside in the lounge for a bit and relax. Another technician came in, explained a few things a little differently and was able to obtain correct measurements.

This is where I met Dr. Sheldon Herzig (http://www.herzig-eye.com/html/surgeons.html#1) He took a final look into my soul (err eyes) and asked if I had any questions. I just told him I felt uneasy about the 6 attempts at taking correct measurements and if everything was looking good. He said, “I wouldn’t even bother if I didn’t get accurate measurements� and confirmed that’s why they took their time getting a proper fingerprint of my cornea – in the end that’s what dictates where the laser was going to strike.

It was time for the treatment. By then, the valium had worn off :( and I couldn’t find the lady who gave me the first pill. I was told to lie on my back and I was guided every step of the way by either Dr. Herzig or one of his assistants. It was cold in the room and I started to shiver. This was just after they told me that I need to lie still throughout the procedure. I asked for a blanket and the shivers subdued. They put a shower cap over my hair and taped my eyelashes/eyelid open. I also got some local anesthetic (numbing drops) and anti-inflammatory meds as well as steroids. Then came the suction ring: they need to pressurize your eye in order to make it ‘firm’ and enable proper creation of the flap.

Speaking of flaps, I chose to go IntraLase vs. Microkeratome route. Huh? IntraLase is where a laser creates the flap whereas microkratome is a blade that slices your eye open. For one, the former just seems less intrusive. It also looks a lot cooler on the screen :) (yes I did watch the treatment about a week before mine through a big window to the ‘operating room’) I’ve also read that there are less complications (flaps too thin, flaps that detach, flaps that don’t heal properly, etc) when using intraLase. It is a bit more expensive but I don’t even think Herzig gives you the option for the micorkeratome and I’m glad they don’t. Besides, it’s your eyes and you get what you pay for.

Anyway, back to the treatment, the suction cup is on and they told me every step that they were performing. The next words were, “you will lose your vision� and I did, it was all blurry and bright sometimes grayish. Then they positioned me under the IntraLase machine and the suction cup and the IntraLase interlocked and they counted down from 60.. yep, that’s all it takes is 1 minute to make the flap. I think this was the most annoying part because you had to stay still for the 60 sec and nothing was really happening (that I could tell). Then they put a patch on the eye and created the flap on the other eye. Once they took the suction cup off I could see again. Then I was moved under the excimer laser machine. This is where the aluminum/steel speculum kept my eye wide open. It was a little uncomfortable as it pressed against my cheekbone but not unbearable pain at all. Dr. Herzig peeled the flap back and it felt exactly like removing a contact lens, everything blurred again but much worse than my -3.00 prescription. 36 seconds later one eye was done. Flap went back on with some lubricant and he used a brush/sponge to even it out and remove any bubbles. I could see again. A little hazy and blurry but I could see. Same thing with the other eye except it only took 23 seconds, crazy.

I was done.. I think 15-20 min was all that it took from the time I entered to the time I left the ‘operating room’. I got some cool boxy shades and waited in the post op area. Once the numbing drops wore off (10-15min after the treatment) I got really light sensitive. It lasted for about 2 hours. As I was being driven home I had to wear those glasses PLUS I put a sweater over my face because ANY ambient light was really bothersome, especially the brake lights of the cars in front. I got home and I had to test this new vision, so I turned on CP24 and I could read the ticker at the bottom without squinting. It was pretty clear! Now there are 2 things to consider when talking about “perfect� vision and in simple terms they are qualitative and quantitative results. The 20/20 everyone talks about is the quantitative, and I figured I had something like that since I could read the ticker BUT the quality is another matter. Now, halos and little hazing are expected and it has been getting MUCH better every day since Thursday. It’s normal. Your eye experiences trauma and while it’s healing it swells and causes the halos and the like. Right now (and once again, it’s normal and part of the healing process) I see fairly well but it feels like I’ve been swimming with my eyes open in a chlorinated pool – see rings around lights and bright objects. For those who have worn contacts, it feels the same as if you partied all night long in a smoky environment and then fell asleep with the contacts in, you wake up in the morning and that’s what it feels like. But, a few lubricating drops is all you need and it the dryness/itchiness goes away. I’ve been tempted on so many occasions to rub/scratch my eye but I stopped myself and used the drops – they alleviate all the pain. I’m still taking the steroids/antibiotics given to me for another week. You also get to sleep with these goggles/patches on your eyes for the first few days so that you don’t accidentally rub/scratch them. They are a little annoying but you can get used to them.

The next day I went to Dr. Herzig for a follow-up and he said everything looked good. The pic that you see in my avatar, is my right eye with some broken blood vessels from the suction ring. My left eye looks much better :p I think that’s pretty much my experience in a nutshell. It’s a pretty painless procedure – there’s some discomfort POST-op but everyone reacts to it differently. If I remember any other details, I’ll post them up but otherwise feel free to ask any questions you have. Thus far this has been the best decision (Costom Wavefront LASIK with IntraLase @ Herzig) I’ve ever made. I hope the halos and blurriness goes away soon and I’ll keep you guys posted. Cheers,

--majic

[SABIO]

I hope it all turns out well. It sounds like your on your way.
I have thought about this alot as well. I have Employee Health Care $$$ to spend.
At my work, there are 2 ladies who went to TLC, and both have nothing but praise...and good eyesight.
There are also 5 or 6 guys and gals who have been to LASIK MD. They all have had good reports and great results.
Is there a reason Lasik MD did not make your list? They have the newest tech and have been around for quite awhile.
I should be having it done in about a month. I got to use my employee health $$$$ as it runs out.

[majic]

Originally posted by SABIO


I hope it all turns out well. It sounds like your on your way.
I have thought about this alot as well. I have Employee Health Care $$$ to spend.
At my work, there are 2 ladies who went to TLC, and both have nothing but praise...and good eyesight.
There are also 5 or 6 guys and gals who have been to LASIK MD. They all have had good reports and great results.
Is there a reason Lasik MD did not make your list? They have the newest tech and have been around for quite awhile.
I should be having it done in about a month. I got to use my employee health $$$$ as it runs out.

thanks.. i HAVE heard good stories about TLC, and LASIKMD, BUT i have _NOT_ heard any horror stories about Herzig (you catch my drift?) also, LASIK MD uses microkeratome and i wanted IntraLase (even if it meant 10-15% price increase) their laser was a little older technology (i think) than what Herzig was using (at the time fo my research) also, i see LASIK MD as an assembly line production.. bam bam bam.. they do $390/eye surgeries and although they do the custom ones for $2000/eye, their surgeons have more \'experience\' in the one-size-fits-all (cheaper) procedure.. and lastly, Dr. Sheldon Herzig is world renowned surgeon with a ton of experience and research under his belt.. i guess a good chunk of my choice was based on personal experience.

EDIT: also, i remember reading that lasikMD OWNS (as opposed to leases) its lasers.. to me, if you own a laser (machine) you keep it longer thus you aren\'t always at the leading edge - (i might be wrong but that\'s my perception)

oh and a little tidbit on Bochner, in addition to my frist impression which was GARBAGE as well as the Brent Hanson story, the other day i read the brochure they gave me - the place seems to be a family/friends run organization as opposed to pick surgeons based on experience.. and they don\'t hide it at all (website/brochure)

[Whos ur dadd]

Great news, majic!!!

Let us know the results once everything stabilizes.

[Candyman]

My wife has been thinking about it for a long time. My only concern is the night vision problem. I hear something like 1% of people have problems seeing at night (lights look like stars). I don\'t know if I explained it properly. Majic, is that problem still happening when you did your research? Let me know how your experience is like at night once your vision clears up.

Thanks & great write up. Lots of info for my wife to read.

[SABIO]

Hey .. Any final news.. Been awhile. Is it all good.?

I went to Lasik MD yesterday... It would be PRK for me.. I gots them thin Corneas :( It still will be Zyoptic custom Lasik though... $4000

I made an apt. with TLC for Tues. They use Intralase... maybe they can do the flap thing. Not big on the PRK idea....
TLC gives a price of $5600 over the phone.. might be a little cheaper after my consultation.

[majic]

so it\'s been about 6 weeks now.. this is how _I_ rate my vision:

day - 100% (or better)
night - went from 85% the day after surgery to about 98% now

overall, night and day (lol) is WAY better than how i saw with contacts/glasses

this is how _THEY_ rate my vision:
right eye: 20/20
left eye: 20/20
both eyes 20/15

still a little confused on how i can have 20/15 using both eyes when one at a time is 20/20 but i _CAN_ read the line BELOW 20/20 .. w000t w0000t :D

side effect to-date:
1) sporadic mild grittiness/discomfort (as if there was sand in my eye) due to dryness - tearing drops help
2) halos around light sources - GREATLY diminished and i don\'t notice them until i stare at a light source to actually look for them

this is what halos are.. mine are not nearly as bad as the smallest representation of halos (top right corner) i would say it\'s HALF that IF THAT.. either way it\'s UNOBTRUSIVE and they HAVE been diminishing over the entire healing process..

http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/4799/halos12ao.jpg

3) starbursts.. they were there at the beginning.. now they are pretty much gone.. it was kinda cool/weird/funny all at once.. imagine a cross and then another one rotated by 45degees (they are superimposed) and you get this

\\ | /
- . -
/ | \\

where the dot is a light source.. each of the arms was a streak of light as if looking through a prism so i saw a slit of all colours going from red to purple.. kind of like this

http://www.rit.edu/~andpph/photofile-c/prism-04.jpg

once again the pic is a HUGE exaggeration.. but anyway.. they are pretty much all gone..

to sum it up.. i am extremely happy with the procedure. the staff at Herzig were just AMAZING, friendly, accommodating and very professional. I would recommend Herzig to EVERYONE.

as for your consultation SABIO, it\'s not the back of the truck so there\'s no haggling ;) it\'ll cost $4000 (lasik MD [not sure if intralase cost is included, might be extra ~500]) $5000 (Bochner [not sure if intralase cost is included, might be extra ~500]) $5600 (TLC) $6400 (Herzig) (at the time of writing this)

i would suggest to check out at least THREE of the above and DO NOT base your decision on how much $ it costs.. and DEFINATELY spend the extra to get it done using intralase instead of the microkeratome

if you guys have any other questions, i\'ll be more than glad to answer them

--majic

[SABIO]

just an update for people interested....

Had my consultation at TLC back in Nov. and was incredibly happy with the staff and the clinic as a whole. Not to mention the could do the Intralase procedure :)
I was very comfortable and they answered my questions before I could think of them. They gave me information I never thought of asking....

So today is the day.... 11 a.m Taking my Baby Blues down to TLC. Kinda feels weird knowing what your doing...eye surgery... a little excited about the outcome, but also a little...scared.. maybe thats a strong word. I think I\'ll take the pill... hehehehe

I will update this a little later......

[TheProfessor]

Wow, hope all goes well, and be sure to post up a pic of one or two bloody eyeballs :p

[SW20 MR2]

FWIW, here are a few PMs that I exchanged with someone over another local message board. I don\'t know him personally though, so take it with a grain of salt:


Well like I said in the post I don\'t want to publically bash LasikMD because that\'s not my style. And I didn\'t want to advertise what I do. But I\'m an optometrist, so i do see first hand what the eyeball looks like after the surgery. Just by looking at the corneal tissue after surgery you can absolutely tell a different between a clean, nice surgery versus a hack job. And most LasikMD surgery outcomes look like hack jobs. The vision may seem fine to the person, but medically it doesn\'t look very nice at all.
I have personal friends who are optometrists that work for LasikMD, TLC, Bochner and Herzig. I ask them what type of complications they see and my friend at LasikMD sees tons of complications, whereas my friend at TLC sees the least amount of complications. If I were to refer my friends and family to a place I would have no problems sending them to TLC. I\'m sure your sister can tell you how great the people are there.

There are differences in the types of lasers that the higher end places uses compared to LasikMD. The higher end places use the most upto date laser, whereas LasikMD uses older equipment. You can still get the most up to date equipment at LasikMD, but then they charge close to 2000 grand/eye. So the price difference doesn\'t seem so big when you start comparing apples to apples.

When LasikMD cuts the corneal tissue they re-use the same blade over and over again. Other places use the surgical blade once and throws them out. These blades themself cost around 200 bucks a pop. Hence LasikMD\'s cost savings, but the patients higher risks.

I can go on and on about other differences, but the bottom line boils down to how much you can afford and the risks you are willing to take.

Lemme know if you have any other questions and I\'d be more than happy to answer them for you.

When I asked him which one he\'d personally go to. This was earlier in the year, so other places may have Intralease now:


Actually Kevin, I did have my eyes done through TLC. Even before I had my eyes done I\'d rank TLC above Herzig or Bochner.
Between those three are pretty close, but the reason why I chose TLC is because they are the only place that offers \'Intralase\'. I don\'t know if you\'ve seen how the laser surgery is performed but the \'Intralase\' relates to the process of creating the corneal flap. Most places use a blade to make this flap. But at TLC they use a laser to create this flap, so the accuracy is phenomenal and risks are much reduced. It costs TLC a fee hundred dollars extra to offer this, that\'s why TLC is just a few hundred dollars more than Bochner or Herzig. But hands down, absolutely TLC all the way.
You can then also say that you had your eyes lasered at the same place Tiger Woods did too.

I\'ll be going to TLC when I want to get the procedure. My sister had it done there a few years ago, and she\'s doing fine. Her sight has regressed a little since then, but she had very bad eyes (-800 or so) to begin with.

[majic]

Originally posted by SW20 MR2


FWIW, here are a few PMs that I exchanged with someone over another local message board. I don\'t know him personally though, so take it with a grain of salt:


Well like I said in the post I don\'t want to publically bash LasikMD because that\'s not my style. And I didn\'t want to advertise what I do. But I\'m an optometrist, so i do see first hand what the eyeball looks like after the surgery. Just by looking at the corneal tissue after surgery you can absolutely tell a different between a clean, nice surgery versus a hack job. And most LasikMD surgery outcomes look like hack jobs. The vision may seem fine to the person, but medically it doesn\'t look very nice at all.
I have personal friends who are optometrists that work for LasikMD, TLC, Bochner and Herzig. I ask them what type of complications they see and my friend at LasikMD sees tons of complications, whereas my friend at TLC sees the least amount of complications. If I were to refer my friends and family to a place I would have no problems sending them to TLC. I\'m sure your sister can tell you how great the people are there.

There are differences in the types of lasers that the higher end places uses compared to LasikMD. The higher end places use the most upto date laser, whereas LasikMD uses older equipment. You can still get the most up to date equipment at LasikMD, but then they charge close to 2000 grand/eye. So the price difference doesn\'t seem so big when you start comparing apples to apples.

When LasikMD cuts the corneal tissue they re-use the same blade over and over again. Other places use the surgical blade once and throws them out. These blades themself cost around 200 bucks a pop. Hence LasikMD\'s cost savings, but the patients higher risks.

I can go on and on about other differences, but the bottom line boils down to how much you can afford and the risks you are willing to take.

Lemme know if you have any other questions and I\'d be more than happy to answer them for you.

When I asked him which one he\'d personally go to. This was earlier in the year, so other places may have Intralease now:


Actually Kevin, I did have my eyes done through TLC. Even before I had my eyes done I\'d rank TLC above Herzig or Bochner.
Between those three are pretty close, but the reason why I chose TLC is because they are the only place that offers \'Intralase\'. I don\'t know if you\'ve seen how the laser surgery is performed but the \'Intralase\' relates to the process of creating the corneal flap. Most places use a blade to make this flap. But at TLC they use a laser to create this flap, so the accuracy is phenomenal and risks are much reduced. It costs TLC a fee hundred dollars extra to offer this, that\'s why TLC is just a few hundred dollars more than Bochner or Herzig. But hands down, absolutely TLC all the way.
You can then also say that you had your eyes lasered at the same place Tiger Woods did too.

I\'ll be going to TLC when I want to get the procedure. My sister had it done there a few years ago, and she\'s doing fine. Her sight has regressed a little since then, but she had very bad eyes (-800 or so) to begin with.


as much as i believe in all that the optometrist told you (been there done that - from a patients point of view)

be aware of a few things:
1) everyone and their mother does intralase now (for a fee of course)
2) so they worked on tiga\' woo\' .. big whoopptie dooda doo.. I bet he got it done for free and they PAID him for the advertising.. you think they would treat a pesant the same as a king? hmm you\'d hope so
3) TLC PAYS optometrists for referrals!!!! this is why it\'s most \"advertised\".. my optometrist did the same.. before i finished my question about lasik, she shouted \"TLC\"

in the end you go where you feel MOST comfortable (personal as well as scientific point of view) and for me that was Herzig..

good luck to all..

3 months later and i LOVE the results (a little dry eye et times but vision is 10x better than with contacts) oh yah did i mention 20/15 - that\'s one line below the standard 20/20 ;) :D

[iconicrocket]

Good to hear that you\'re doing well after the surgery, Majic.

Just one question, does the flap completely heal over. I mean does it heal back to it\'s original form as in one piece. Or does the flap remain permenantly for life?

[SABIO]

hey :)

Just finished a one hour nap.... so fsr everything is good. Eyes are a little sore,sensitive....a little bit of the itchy feeling. And yes.. I Can See !! A little blurry (smokey) right now... but that is normal.

anyway back to bed for me.....


no big bloody eyeballs here... they just look bloodshot...

[SW20 MR2]

No doubt about it. That\'s why I said take everything with a grain of salt.



2) so they worked on tiga\' woo\' .. big whoopptie dooda doo.. I bet he got it done for free and they PAID him for the advertising.. you think they would treat a pesant the same as a king? hmm you\'d hope so

Hahahaha...it was a golf message board, so that\'s why he made that comment. :p



3) TLC PAYS optometrists for referrals!!!! this is why it\'s most \"advertised\".. my optometrist did the same.. before i finished my question about lasik, she shouted \"TLC\"

I heard rumours about that before and always wondered if it was true.

[SABIO]

A few more hours sleep... feel much better...
Alot of the smokey/haze is gone, but is still present. Lots of drops for my eyes... 2 different bottle and still have the artificial tears to use for next week.
Glad they gave me the 5 Ativan :)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/sabio7/IMG_08292.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y226/sabio7/IMG_08272.jpg

[TheProfessor]

Looking at those pics makes my eyes water.

[SABIO]

Went back to TLC today.
Everything checked out Excellent. They were surprised that I have yet to feel any dryness or itchy/scratchy.... I\'m glad :)
They were also Very pleased with my first day results.. Both Eyes 20/20!! I could even read a few from the 20/15 line with both eyes open. And I still have some minor vision adjustment going on and some haze still... I wonder if I will have 20/15 in a few weeks :) :) :)
(edit)-Lasik M.D said I had only a 80% chance of acheiving perfect corrected vision, which they said was 20/30. TLC gave me 95% of acheiving 20/20, which they surpassed!
Yes it is only been a day...still small chances a infection and stuff... but so far. WOW!!!

Yes, just like the original title of the post says, I could have bought a Jay Hass Turbo kit for the $5600 I just spent...but when I look out the window and see what I can see now.... It\'s priceless..

My vision is better now than with glasses or contacts...once these Halos shrink up a bit in a few weeks. My pupils were on the smaller side and in conjunction with the new Laser TLC uses (maps 200 points vs. 40) The Dr. said I had virtually 0% chance of having night vision difficulty. kewl..

what can I say... It\'s worth it.. every penny...

[SW20 MR2]

SABIO,

How much did you pay for it?

[majic]

Originally posted by SW20 MR2


SABIO,

How much did you pay for it?


Originally posted by SABIO

$5600 I just spent


the \'better\' places will be in the 5-6K range

[SW20 MR2]

Doh! Thanks, majic. :D

That\'s what I expected. Wish it was something insurance would cover. My wife probably needs it more than I do, so that\'s a big chunk of change for two of us.


Originally posted by majic

the \'better\' places will be in the 5-6K range

[majic]

Originally posted by SW20 MR2


Doh! Thanks, majic. :D

That\'s what I expected. Wish it was something insurance would cover. My wife probably needs it more than I do, so that\'s a big chunk of change for two of us.


Originally posted by majic

the \'better\' places will be in the 5-6K range

i know what you mean.. b/c it\'s an elective procedure they won\'t cover. you MIGHT get lucky and use your $200 every 2 yrs allowance to get that 200 back :sarc

unfortunately, i did not want to cheap out onmy eyes.. so i paid for a good procedure.

[SW20 MR2]

Definitely. It\'s one thing to be cheap about your car or toys, but nothing but the best for the eyes. Definitely gonna be TLC or Herzig for my wife and I when we get laser surgery. My guess is that we\'ll get it done in about 3-5 years or so after we buy a house, furnish it, and get settled in.


Originally posted by majic
i know what you mean.. b/c it\'s an elective procedure they won\'t cover. you MIGHT get lucky and use your $200 every 2 yrs allowance to get that 200 back :sarc

unfortunately, i did not want to cheap out onmy eyes.. so i paid for a good procedure.

[wtom]

So what's the eyesight like now over a year later guys?

[majic]

sorry what was that? i can't see what you typed ..

[Skarbro]

I just got LASIK done almost a month ago. Best money I spent. It was $2,600 total (minus about $260 I have in coverage).

My vision is about 20/15 now! Pretty damn good....

[wtom]

sorry what was that? i can't see what you typed ..

白人看不懂? 白人看不懂! :chuckle

[majic]

I just got LASIK done almost a month ago. Best money I spent. It was $2,600 total (minus about $260 I have in coverage).

My vision is about 20/15 now! Pretty damn good....

where did you go? lasikmd?

microkeratome or laser?

[majic]

白人看不懂? 白人看不懂! :chuckle

aaaaah..

in that case.. everything is great.. too many hrs in front of the tv/pc and the eyes get tired/red/dry but nothing out of the ordinary..

it's awesome seeing the clock in the darkness and not having to wear contacts ..

+99999

[Xerox]

白人看不懂? 白人看不懂! :chuckle

:chuckle

[Skarbro]

where did you go? lasikmd?

microkeratome or laser?

Lasik MD. They gave me the option of doing the new Zyoptix, which was $4100. But after doing a lot of research, the standard Lasik was the way to go. And it turned out awesome.

One thing I wasn't prepared for was the burning smell. :whoa

[majic]

Lasik MD. They gave me the option of doing the new Zyoptix, which was $4100. But after doing a lot of research, the standard Lasik was the way to go. And it turned out awesome.

One thing I wasn't prepared for was the burning smell. :whoa

by zyoptix do you mean custom wavefront lasik?

what did they use to create the flap?

burning smell? realy mine wasn't that noticeable.. then again it's been a while so maybe i forgot ;)

[TheProfessor]

I really want to get laser eye surgery but there are two things stopping me right now:

1) I need to see my eye doctor again and get the OK from him. Last time he checked my eyes they had gotten a little worse and it's obviously not worth doing if they keep getting worse.
2) Fear. To be honest, I've never liked anyone or thing touching my eyes, it just freaks me out. Add to that the fact that they're cutting a thin slice of film off my eyes, then shooting lasers into it, and well it makes me nervous to say the least.

[SIM SIMMA]

Wuss.

:)

I'm reluctant as well.... but will probably end up doing it somewhere down the road. The procedures have been around long enough for me to feel confident in it. I have heard mostly good stories raving about it so..... we'll see.

[majic]

it's not that bad.. it's much easier if you wear contacts b/c you're used to touching your eye and all.. they do give you vallium :D

just make sure you go to a reputable place and that you feel COMFORTABLE with them.. oh and bring a cardboard box to put on your head afterwards as you will be light sensitive like a bat flying into the sun!

[TheProfessor]

Wuss.

:)



Shaddap you.

I've never worn contacts for the exact reason stated above. Majic, when you were on the Valium were you aware that they were messing with your eyes? I've heard that you are, but you just don't care.

[majic]

yeah.. by the time they got my measurements correct, teh valium wore off.. but in all honesty there was VERY minimal 'discomfort'

it never goes black.. it goes gray but it's pretty bright throughout the procedure.. once they suck your eyeball into this 'vice' it ain't going anywhere :D

[TheProfessor]

Okay, are you trying to freak me out, cause it's working. They put your eyeball in a vice? Maybe my glasses aren't that bad!

[majic]

well.. not exactly.. just refer to my original experience post :)

from what i remember they used a vacuum like suction device to pressurize my eyeball and then cut the flap (i had the intralase done so the flap was cut using a laser) after that it was < 30 sec per eye..

honestly.. a dentist visit is much worse than lasik ;)

[Skarbro]

by zyoptix do you mean custom wavefront lasik?

what did they use to create the flap?

burning smell? realy mine wasn't that noticeable.. then again it's been a while so maybe i forgot ;)

Zyoptix is the new Bausch & Lombe technique. Basically it’s new software and hardware that’s available only to Lasik in Canada right now. It’s some kind of card with a new lens that they put in the existing machine. The U.S. doesn’t even have it yet. They can make wider flap (perfect for people with wide pupils) and it burns away less tissue, making recovery quicker. If you have too high a prescription, then they will only offer Zyoptix.

[firstmazda]

What were your prescriptions before?

Mine are:
Rt: -4.5
Lt: -4.75

is that considered a high prescription?

[bluntman]

Mine are:

r: -7.25
l: -7.00

IIRC. Either way, I wear toric contact lenses. I just bought a year's worth of disposables, but once they run out next year, I will strongly consider getting this procedure done. My coworker just had her eyes done last week at Lasik and she is completely satisfied.

[Skarbro]

Mine are:

r: -7.25
l: -7.00

IIRC. Either way, I wear toric contact lenses. I just bought a year's worth of disposables, but once they run out next year, I will strongly consider getting this procedure done. My coworker just had her eyes done last week at Lasik and she is completely satisfied.

Holy shit you're blind!

With your prescription, I would guess that Lasik for you would cost at least $5,000 for both eyes.

[bluntman]

I can't argue with you there, but my contacts work well, I have 20/20 vision with them.

[majic]

Holy shit you're blind!

With your prescription, I would guess that Lasik for you would cost at least $5,000 for both eyes.

as far as i know, herzig and tlc do not discriminate.. whether you are -1.0 or -10 in both eyes the procedure costs the same as it is the SAME procedure (it still requires a custom mapping of thousands of points on yer eyeball) :)

with something like lasik, the difference b/w 2K and 6K shouldn't be an issue.. i wouldn't want to **** with my eyesight ;) it's more of a "i want to do it and i'm willing to pay" or i will wear contacts till i can afford it..

Arthur, you'll get 360$ from our plan.. lol.. laughable.. but then you can deduct the rest from your gross income at tax time :bana

[bluntman]

Arthur, you'll get 360$ from our plan.. lol.. laughable.. but then you can deduct the rest from your gross income at tax time :bana

Explain that last part for me?

[majic]

say you make 60K

after taxes, it's 40K (give or take)
you get lasik, spend 5K

you submit the claim to the manulife (i think) and you get ~$360 back

come tax time, you can claim your medical expenses as long as they are MORE than the lesser of 3% or $1800..

3% of 60K is bang on 1800 and your medical expense is $4600 (lasik) plus dental and all other shit..

so you'll get about $1500 back from CRA..

[bluntman]

Awesome! I will keep that in mind.

[Hypothrml]

I highly recommend TLC, I had my procedure done on Dec. 22nd and everything went smoothly!

[Whos ur dadd]

say you make 60K

after taxes, it's 40K (give or take)
you get lasik, spend 5K

you submit the claim to the manulife (i think) and you get ~$360 back

come tax time, you can claim your medical expenses as long as they are MORE than the lesser of 3% or $1800..

3% of 60K is bang on 1800 and your medical expense is $4600 (lasik) plus dental and all other shit..

so you'll get about $1500 back from CRA..

good to know!

[SABIO]

Zyoptix is the new Bausch & Lombe technique. Basically it’s new software and hardware that’s available only to Lasik in Canada right now. It’s some kind of card with a new lens that they put in the existing machine. The U.S. doesn’t even have it yet. They can make wider flap (perfect for people with wide pupils) and it burns away less tissue, making recovery quicker. If you have too high a prescription, then they will only offer Zyoptix.


THATS BULLSHIT!!.. LASIKMD buys TLC's old Equipment. That much I know. You want the newest an dbest go to TLC or Herzig or Boch-whatever!
There is a reason they charge the most.
Your eyes..you want to get the cheapest, go ahead.

I would STAY AWAY from LASIK!! They booked me with a doctor that had not done any procedures!
I asked them how many she did..and they could not tell me...
They have the 2 main doctors... the other 12 or so are in TRAINING!!!

TLC has 3 Surgeons..thats it... Same 3 guys..10's of thousands of refractive surgeries.

My scrip. was -5.?? It is now 20/20. I also had crappy astigmatism that is corrected 95% (still there abit..)

The actual facility and staff are far more professional at TLC than Lasikmd

[majic]

+1 on that one sabio.. didn't want to diss lasikMD by myself ;) but that's why i didn't go to them..

anyway.. you have the $ and want to get it done right go to herzig or TLC.. if you're strapped for cash or can take chances then .. pick whatever you want. in the end it's your $ and your eyes...

[majic]

besides.. i'm pretty sure lasikmd uses the microkeratome (blade) to slice your eye open instead of a intralase (laser) b/c it costs less and it's WAY less accurate.. i had intralase done and love it!!!